In my understanding of the trans issue.

[Randomusername01]

I'm trying to work out if I'm being bigoted or not. I agree with some of the trans posts I see here but others, whilst maybe not being anti trans by mn standards definitely come across as mean and on the verge of being anti trans imo. Anyway I digress. Am I right in thinking that gender is just a feeling, constructed partly by society and partly by individual innateness. So I guess I do agree that people can self I'd their gender along whatever myriad there is. But this is separate from anatomical sex, which bar a minority of cases either fall under male with penis and female with a vagina. So you could perhaps identify with being female but anatomically you would be male? So is the problem lies in how society segregates things such as prisons, sports, changing rooms etc. By gender or otherwise?

Gender is, according to the dictionary, the 'state of being male or female'. There is nothing there about feelings or choice, but there is a reference to social and cultural differences, as opposed to biological differences between the sexes.

Gender dysphoria is when someone's feeling about their gender is at odds with their biological reality.

Trans-people may or may not have gender dysphoria, depending on whether you believe in redefining the meaning of the word gender to mean an inner feeling about your gender identity.

Trans people cannot change their biological sex, but they can change the way they interact with people around them to conform more closely to the gender stereotypes of the opposite sex. If this makes them feel comfortable then it doesn't really matter with they have a medical condition called gender dysphoria or not, as it clearly helps them.

However, some trans people want to eradicate all reference to biological distinctions within our society, by competing against biological women rather than biological men in competitive sports. This is where women's rights should, in my opinion, trump trans rights. Similarly, places that protect vulnerable women cater for the unique vulnerabilities that come with being a biological woman, so those places need to be protected.

Trans activists who refuse to acknowledge that biology is a valid category upon which to make distinctions are not only scientifically wrong, they are also damaging women's rights and stripping our language of the vocabulary necessary to talk about women's issues.

CaligulaBlushed

Why not expand the bandwidth of gender instead? Why does a boy who likes to wear dresses need to be a girl? Surely that is just reinforcing gender stereotypes. Shouldn’t we be saying ‘great, that dress is lovely on you. Be free to dress how you want to without criticism’.

@MissSusanSays I agree. Women began wearing traditionally male clothing in the 1920s. It is about time men caught up.

Trans women face the same kind of oppression as non-trans women.

What, like limited access to abortion, poor maternity and post-maternity care leading to deaths of both mothers and children, FGM, an outsized burden of childcare, low access to breastfeeding support, being murdered at a rate of 2 a week in the UK, access to education in developing countries, child marriage, period poverty and poor medical support for period and uterine-related illness...?

CaligulaBlushed Are you saying that this doesn't happen. In the US girls as young as 13 are getting double mastectomies. Insurance companies are being groomed to accept this.
I spoke to an adolescent today on twitter who wants a mastectomy because she thinks it will 'free' her.
I know of at least one trans activist who advises children on how to get puberty blockers.
What kind of hell is this?

Trans women face the same kind of oppression as non-trans women.

Does anyone who says or writes this actually give it a moment's thought first?

This just scratches the surface: What, like limited access to abortion, poor maternity and post-maternity care leading to deaths of both mothers and children, FGM, an outsized burden of childcare, low access to breastfeeding support, being murdered at a rate of 2 a week in the UK, access to education in developing countries, child marriage, period poverty and poor medical support for period and uterine-related illness...?

Yes ofcourse boys at school will say that. Especially to win at sporys or enter the girls changing rooms. Which dont have cubicles.

I don't want to be funny but schoolboys aren't "lone wolf" sexual predators, typically speaking.

There is a problem in this country with girls being sexually assaulted by boys at school. This is because of gender expectations, again. It is seen as manly and masculine for boys to be sexually aggressive, and they ape this adult expectation at a time when they are just becoming sexually aware. They're children most of the time, and society fills them up with this pornified shit and makes victims of our daughters and monsters of our sons.

But young boys, our children, are not usually sexually motivated predators, prepared to step far outside the norms of their peer group to gratify some intense desire or to prey on the vulnerable. That is a very dark vision.

@ledehe not really going to engage in any meaningful debate with someone who tells me to fuck off for googling a stat and adding the link.

Shouldn’t we be saying ‘great, that dress is lovely on you. Be free to dress how you want to without criticism

We do say that, don't we? But for some people that's not enough. And that's okay too.

Gender ideology just reinforces damaging gender expectations.

@blardyblar what I mean is I don't think that all transwoman are sexual criminals in the same way that I know that not all men are sexual criminals, not that transwoman are never sexual criminals. But I still wouldn't want to be in a communal changing room with either of them, I guess partly due to prudishness and partly down to I don't know if they are sexual criminals or not. But the latter part of that last statement equally means that by barring penis' from women's changing rooms sounds a bit like I'm assuming all penis' could be a potential sexual offender and I can understand why someone with a penis might be offended with that. But does that right to be offended overrule my right not to want to be naked in front of one for that reason? I personally don't think it does otherwise we could get rid of all segregated changing rooms and just have communal changing rooms all round.

Gender ideology just reinforces damaging gender expectations.

I don't think so, I think it helps challenge them.

Some people have gender dysphoria. That's extremely sad for them.
It would be very much better for young people to learn to be happy in their own bodies. Often surgery doesn't cure the dysphoria. How could it? It's not possible to change sex.
In the meantime rates of young girls 'transing' has shot through the roof. We need to find out why.

How can it challenge them? If you like barbie your a girl etc.
Women who keep their sex and take science qualifications is challenging stereotypes.

You see, I don;t know what makes you say that and use it as a rational for allowing boys who say they're girls free access to girls in vulnerable situations.

In the late 70s, my best friend from school was on her way home when 3 boys - also aged 15 like her - sexually assaulted her. She'd known them since primary school.

Whatever it is that makes boys do that, please don't tell me it's somehow the girl's fault that 'society' has made them. Or use it as an excuse for sex offenders.

Gender ideology just reinforces damaging gender expectations.

I don't think so, I think it helps challenge them.

Eh? Telling children that if they like pink and fairies they're girls and if they like trucks and football they're boys and should transition?

That is what the advice from Mermaids and the like, currently being foisted on to schools and parents, declares.

God only knows what sort of people they [FWR boards] attract these days

Well, you’ll be pleased to know there’s a homosexual cis male Dr and a well-known trans woman activitist who often pop by, so it really does attract a range of folx.

Gender ideology just reinforces damaging gender expectations.

I don't think so, I think it helps challenge them.

Can you explain how it challenges gender expectations?

I'm sick and my typing is going to pot. I'm having a whisky and watching Corrie now - does that make me a man or a woman?
I hope that people reading can see how dangerous this ideology is. We should expand what it means to be a boy or a girl, not send people down a fruitless and dangerous path to 'changing sex'.

I don't really get the viewpoint that we need to change society but until then, anything goes. Surely we need to maintain sex based protections whilst doing all we can to change society, then relax the protections when we're happy that risk (or socially accepted advantage) is removed?

How can it challenge them? If you like barbie your a girl etc.

Nobody seriously thinks that in this day and age. Transgender individuals just show us the other end of the spectrum.

People with male bodies can be stereotypically masculine, they can be stereotypically feminine but still identify as men, they can be stereotypically masculine but identify as women or be stereotypically feminine and identify as women. The same for female bodied people. Being exposed to and surrounded by people on all parts of that spectrum just makes it easier for all of us to express ourselves exactly how we like, regardless of our body or gender identity.

We do say that, don't we? But for some people that's not enough. And that's okay too.

Do we? Because all I have heard so far about these child trans stories are that the kid liked wearing dresses/ hated dresses and the family were worried and confused. When told only girls wear dresses/ like pink/ like knitting/ love barbie the kid then says that they want to be a girl.

If you’ve seen any evidence otherwise then I’d love to see it. But the only ideology I have ever heard from transgender support groups is like girl stuff=girl and like boy stuff=boy. Which is, of course, regressive sexist nonsense.

kolo, you linked to a highly partisan and unreliable source which in turn sourced it’s own stats from a highly partisan source.

They’re meaningless.

How exactly does one identify as a woman?

Is there any other biological reality we can identify into?

Can we identify as black? Disabled? No?

So why is sex, a protected charicteristic, up for grabs?

People with male bodies can be stereotypically masculine, they can be stereotypically feminine but still identify as men, they can be stereotypically masculine but identify as women or be stereotypically feminine and identify as women. The same for female bodied people. Being exposed to and surrounded by people on all parts of that spectrum just makes it easier for all of us to express ourselves exactly how we like, regardless of our body or gender identity.

That would be great if that's how things were but current gender ideology doesn't accept that male bodied people are identifying as women. It's saying they ARE women.