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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this isn't fair of school?

117 replies

cricketmum84 · 09/10/2018 22:26

I'm sure I read a thread about this a few months ago but can't find it now.

DD is year 5. Very well behaved, bright and doing well but quite shy and anxious. This year her class teacher has developed a system where group 1( the brightest kids) have to sit with a kid from group 5 (not so bright, some behavioural issues).

She has come home tonight quite upset because boy x from group 5 is basically a twat (my words not hers). He has thrown her stuff on the floor, been saying mean things about her. He's not listened to the teachers instructions so DD has had to explain the work to him and help him then for in trouble for not finishing her own work. She was too nervous to speak to the teacher about what he had done so just accepted the telling off.

Is it just me or is this really lazy teaching?? And I really don't think it's fair to effectively make a 9 year old girl responsible for another child's learning! Isn't this what teaching assistants are for?

WIBU to kick off with school tomorrow? My DH thinks I'm massively overreacting! I also wonder if by me stepping in and speaking to them I'm enabling her to continue being too nervous to speak to the teacher?

OP posts:
Wheresthel1ght · 09/10/2018 22:30

you would be utterly unreasonable to kick off.

You would not be unreasonable to request a meeting with the teacher and discuss your concerns calmly.

However, it is a common practice and used in a lot of schools. The aim is that weaker students will be mirror the stronger students and that it will increase collaborative learning.

ChasedByBees · 09/10/2018 22:32

It doesn’t seem like there’s much in it for the stronger learner though. I would have a discussion about this affecting your DD adversely.

Original poster
cricketmum84 · 09/10/2018 22:32

Ok kick off is probably a strong choice of words... I wouldn't go in all guns blazing but would certainly tell them how I feel.

I can't see it as collaborative learning. To me it just seems that they are using the better behaved child's influence but at a detriment to the better behaved child.

I think she should be allowed to continue with her own learning without the responsibility of supporting someone else.

OP posts:
Wearywithteens · 09/10/2018 22:33

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Slippersandacuppa · 09/10/2018 22:34

This is the exact reason one of my friends moved her daughter at the end of year two. As well as everything you’ve said, the daughter was so stressed all the time because she wanted to please her friend and her teacher at the same time and they both wanted completely different things from her. It reached a head, even after her going in to the school several times and she’s never looked back. I agree about going in but I’d be surprised if anything changes. If your school is anything like ours, the sheer number of children in one, too-small classroom, working from a ridiculous curriculum, means that our wonderful teachers seem to be firefighting most of the time.

Rebooting · 09/10/2018 22:34

I think I’d probably talk to the teacher rather than kicking off. Maybe establish the whole picture.

And as a separate issue, work on your daughter being more assertive - girls need their voices!

Allthewaves · 09/10/2018 22:35

Well she shouldn't have to explain work to another child. She need so tell him if he doesn't understand then to ask the teacher.

There's no need to 'kick off' just phone school and ask for a call back and get teachers side of the story. Surely the teacher is aware he threw her books in the floor. Btw it's not relevant what group he's in or how bright he is - it's his behaviour impacting your daughter should be your concern.

sirfredfredgeorge · 09/10/2018 22:35

She was too nervous to speak to the teacher

This is the thing you need to address most importantly, whatever the classroom structure, and no-one will know enough to say if it's good or bad from a post. The kid has to be comfortable and confident enough to speak to their teacher about problems and issues - that's the thing to raise with the teacher first, how it came about is just an aside.

AllPizzasGreatAndSmall · 09/10/2018 22:41

The teacher is unreasonable to have the class in groups from 1 (the brightest children) to 5 (the least bright).

Uncreative · 09/10/2018 22:42

If your daughter is that unhappy, you should speak to the teacher on her behalf.

However, please be aware that this is a common method of classroom management and teaching. It works on more the one level. As a PP said, there is the hope that the lower level student will model the behaviour and approach of the better student. It improves social skills and makes students work with people they might otherwise not. And the best way to consolidate learning is by being able to explain something to another person.

From my own experience as a teacher, I would say it is a valuable teaching tool BUT only when used in conjunction with other methods. It should absolutely not be the default approach.

I would suggest you approach it as more of a personality clash/spat between your daughter and the other child rather than question the teaching methods. Let the teacher know about books being thrown on the floor etc.

Original poster
cricketmum84 · 09/10/2018 22:45

@AllPizzasGreatAndSmall I don't think it's unreasonable to split children by ability? Not when there is a big difference between abilities.

I've changed how the groups are named to not be outing but it's known that for eg red group are the brightest and blue group aren't...

OP posts:
AllPizzasGreatAndSmall · 09/10/2018 22:50

All primary school classes have a wide range of abilities; it is not considered good practice to have ability groupings.

SputnikBear · 09/10/2018 22:50

It always seems to me that pairing weaker pupils with stronger ones disadvantages the stronger pupil and advantages the teacher who effectively has a free carer for the weak pupil. I wouldn’t be happy with that set up at all, and would switch schools if necessary.

QuackPorridgeBacon · 09/10/2018 22:51

I can see why they do it but if it’s a problem for your daughter it needs to be raised. Throwing her things is out of order and no way should she be in trouble for uncomplicated work because of another student. I echo others when they say you need to teach your daughter to speak up. If there is an issue or she is uncomfortable then she shouldn’t have to suffer through it.

Gileswithachainsaw · 09/10/2018 22:53

You will be told all sorts of reasons why it's beneficial to both kids and she shkukd he proud she's been thought of for the opportunity

Truth is it's shit and everyone knows it's shit it does nothing for the poor bugger sat being used as the bait dog/unpaid ta and only benefits the teacher who has carefully selected the bright child who is coincidently and conveniently unable to speak up so the teacher can pretend they don't know she's being made miserable by some kid old enough to know better

I've had to complain twice now.the change in dd was instantly noticeable.

Please speak up for her

PurpleDaisies · 09/10/2018 22:54

He's not listened to the teachers instructions so DD has had to explain the work to him

Did she decide to do this or did the teacher tell her to?

waterrat · 09/10/2018 22:54

It is disgusting in my opinion that children are grouped in that way. How do you think it feels to know you are in the slower group? Have you thought maybe it's demeaning and leads to an increase in poor behaviour?

So horrible to see adults talk about some kids needing 'carers' and being nothing but a burden on 'bright' children. How humiliating.

Children all have skills and all deserve to be treated with respect.

In our primary school children work in completely mixed ability small groups

MrsReacher1 · 09/10/2018 22:55

Your DD will learn valuable lessons from this. She will learn how to explain things simply and clearly and consolidate her own learning by doing so. She will learn how to work with other people. She will maybe understand that not everything is easy for everyone but they can still contribute.

I understand how you feel. My DD did this and it concerned me. It has in fact stood her in very good stead and she still talks about Year 5 and working with XX on XX project.

MrsReacher1 · 09/10/2018 22:57

And it is not as if it is every lesson.

But - if your DD is unhappy then you do need to address that of course.

applesauce1 · 09/10/2018 22:58

Yes. Lower ability children should all be grouped together so they never have the benefit of seeing/hearing/being involved with more able children's work level. Children with behavioural difficulties shouldn't even be allowed in school just in case they act imperfectly.

I know that sarcasm isn't helpful, but the phrase "lazy teacher" really bothers me. Classroom placement is something that teachers agonise over. It is impossible to make a seating plan that is perfect for all, but I don't know a teacher who doesn't try damn hard to achieve that and constantly reevaluates said seating plans.

There are many benefits of sitting and working with those less and more able.

MaxDArnold · 09/10/2018 22:59

You need to go in and boot right off. Why should your daughter be dragged down? Also if she see's you stand up to a teacher she will feel more able to do it for herself next time.

Gileswithachainsaw · 09/10/2018 22:59

Your DD will learn valuable lessons from this. She will learn how to explain things simply and clearly and consolidate her own learning by doing so

No she really won't. She will just be stressed daily she will he in trouble for someone else's behaviour and for not finishing work she's been actively instructed from doing. Meanwhile everyone blames her for not having the courage to speak up.

SputnikBear · 09/10/2018 22:59

So horrible to see adults talk about some kids needing 'carers' and being nothing but a burden on 'bright' children. How humiliating.
It’s the teacher who has created this situation though, by dividing kids into groups and expecting the more able kids to support the less able. Kids should not be asked to support other kids. That’s the job of the salaried professional standing at the front.

ohreallyohreallyoh · 09/10/2018 22:59

I can't see it as collaborative learning

And yet a ton of pedagogical research suggests otherwise.

Not a fan myself but there is huge learning in teaching.

Gileswithachainsaw · 09/10/2018 22:59

Obstructed

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