To think this isn't fair of school?

[cricketmum84]

I'm sure I read a thread about this a few months ago but can't find it now.

DD is year 5. Very well behaved, bright and doing well but quite shy and anxious. This year her class teacher has developed a system where group 1( the brightest kids) have to sit with a kid from group 5 (not so bright, some behavioural issues).

She has come home tonight quite upset because boy x from group 5 is basically a twat (my words not hers). He has thrown her stuff on the floor, been saying mean things about her. He's not listened to the teachers instructions so DD has had to explain the work to him and help him then for in trouble for not finishing her own work. She was too nervous to speak to the teacher about what he had done so just accepted the telling off.

Is it just me or is this really lazy teaching?? And I really don't think it's fair to effectively make a 9 year old girl responsible for another child's learning! Isn't this what teaching assistants are for?

WIBU to kick off with school tomorrow? My DH thinks I'm massively overreacting! I also wonder if by me stepping in and speaking to them I'm enabling her to continue being too nervous to speak to the teacher?

My dd was always chosen to sit next to the kids who struggled to concentrate/ were disruptive/ didn’t speak English etc in primary. She wasn’t one of the brightest (slightly above average) but is naturally very dedicated and caring so was very good at helping others. It really helped her too as previously she was incredibly shy and wouldn’t initiate conversations. She also got a lot of confidence and self esteem from it. However, if she’d been sat next to a bully, I’d have spoken to the teacher in a heartbeat and am confident they’d have moved her immediately.

All resolved!

Her class teacher has called me back to say she was having the same conversation with the TA as they were passed the message to call me back. They have seen that he is disruptive and that he will be taught on his own from now on. They were hoping she would be a good influence on him but understand that shouldn't be at the detriment of my DD. She will be given a new buddy.

I'm confused - how on earth can you make sure the work is appropriate for each individual child if you don't?

Because the majority of the time work set isn’t collaborative, so it doesn’t matter who you sit next to when you complete it. Arguably, ability groupings are less likely to mean children are doing work that’s appropriate for them.

By all means go in and complain about the fact that she’s being distracted but somebody has been sitting next the child in question for 5 years, and if it hasn’t been her, then she’s done quite well so far.

My DD is like yours and was sat next to 'naughty boy'. He made her learning life hell and I've now told the teacher to move things around because whilst it's supposed to help him I'm not having it at the detriment of my DD who was crying about not wanting to go to school.

Yes I know why they do it but no YWNBU to ask for it to stop.

That's exactly the right result and excellent handling from your school OP.

In my case, I was on the verge of withdrawing my kid, who went from bright and engaged, to breaking down in tears and withdrawn because of paired marking on every applicable exercise (teacher freely admitted it, and I saw it in practice whenever I was in the school for his little brother) - luckily the new teacher the next year used that method sparingly and he bounced right back.

I've decided that my children knowing that I have their back is more important than being seen as 'that mum' and whilst, like you, I'm not going in all guns blazing, I'm also not going to shy away from raising an issue when I see one.

X posted. Sounds like the school are on it.

SputnikBear Tue 09-Oct-18 22:59:16

So horrible to see adults talk about some kids needing 'carers' and being nothing but a burden on 'bright' children. How humiliating.

It’s the teacher who has created this situation though, by dividing kids into groups and expecting the more able kids to support the less able.

Did the teacher actually say this or is it OPs interpretation of the situation?

Will your daughter be apologised to for the telling off she got?

How was it not obvious that the other pupil was the reason that she hadn't finished her own work?

If this buddying up is to happen-shouldn't the kids be given the chance to do their own work before being expected to help others?

Or if like your daughter they aren't able to prioritise their own work-then they shouldn't be being asked!

I think in small doses this does help more able students but when year on year they are "allocated" as a buddy it can destroy confidence and lead to self confidence and esteem issues. I have a relatively quiet daughter, a low flyer who is bright and motivated - she came to me after being consistently sad with the naughty group thinking SHE was the naughty one! I went in and talked about the impact this was having on her and how they were not being clear with her why she was sat with xyz and what benefit was she getting from it etc - she was moved - temporarily as it turns out but she just needed a break from it - I went in must have been half a doz times and she was moved but then moved back again. Really unfair but one of the symptoms of an underfunded system with not enough TA time - one on one or otherwise

I was a teacher until recently and I did group by ability (loosely) but I didn’t do what your school has gone. My understanding that mixing abilities is good but near ability is good practise. I would never mix ‘top’ and ‘bottom’ because I don’t think it’s good for either. ‘Top’ set are slowed down and I always worry that it can be damaging to the self esteem of ‘bottom’ set children - disregarding behaviour issues from anyone. I would mix ability groups with say sets one and two and sets three and four if that makes sense?

I was your DD OP, bright but shy and quiet. I hated being used as a mini teacher because I just wanted to sit quietly and do my work instead of have to battle with someone who didn’t want to work at all (my experience, not labelling a whole group.)

Excellent result cricket hopefully your dd will have had a better day when she comes home.

If by year 5 they still haven't learnt the rules and how to mot be a bully they either have issues far nore complex that a 9 year old can't possibly be expected to help sort out. Or they are actively showing to be a pain in the arse and no amount of buffer zone kids being used and abused will change that. Again that's the responsibility if trained and paid professionals.

I think this is very common - we had exactly this when DD at primary several years ago. After 2 terms I finally cracked and asked if she could be put on a table with kids who were more able, rather than less able, than her as I felt it was her turn to be stretched.
I think you have to accept it to some extent but monitor to ensure that your child is being supported to fulfil their potential rather than being used to help others to fulfil theirs.

Do they really label the groups in numbers?
At my children's school each group/ table has a cool name e.g "Lions", "Tigers" "Meerkats" etc. I love the name idea as at that age as they have no awareness that they are in the lowest group.

@OctoberBirthday1110 no not in numbers, I was just using that as an example so it wasn't outing.

Storm the Citadel, OP!!

I am not one for raising my head above the parapet, but in this case I would be very angry. My dd was (and still is) very shy indeed. She was almost silent at primary school. She would never have had the courage to advocate for herself, as some posters are suggesting your dd should do. Don't these posters realise that some (many) children are nervous of speaking up? And especially when it's disagreeing with the teacher. They are likely to get short shrift which will make them even more cowed.

This "pairing" philosophy is a pile of crap. I'd rather all the children just sat and faced the front, actually. With tables there's always a couple with their backs to the teacher, and I agree that being on the bottom table is demoralising, especially if some pupils are there due to behaviour rather than just needing more help. But pairing is all about helping one and not giving a stuff about the other.

Whoops, just saw you did storm the Citadel! Well done. Hope the new buddy is less of a challenge.

I am glad it has worked out. It seems like she has some good teachers who are keeping an eye on things and intervene when a new system is not working. Sorry your daughter had to go through such a rough day though. That boy really does sound like a twat.

OctoberBirthday All the research shows even very young kids do realise.

I'm glad OP, sounds like your DD's teachers are really on the ball.

I hate this shit. It's not your daughters role to look after this child and bring any one up to her level. That's the teachers job. I don't care about research and studies. Just do your actual job.

And why is it always the girls that this is landed on? I never hear a story about a quiet well behaved boy who is forced to sit with an unruly girl who throws his books.

I agree the only reason this was your daughter is because the teacher assessed who was in the class and thought, I know X can sit next to Y, she is too quiet to make a fuss.

If your daughter is too shy to speak up, That's fine. That's who she is and it's not a flaw. Quite frankly the teacher doesn't sound like they foster an atmosphere where the kids can speak up. So now she needs you to speak up for her. Firm and calm, tell them it ends today.

I think you are perfectly within your rights to go into school and talk through your concerns.
I also think it’s important that your daughter understands what’s expected of her (if the teacher is expecting her to help this other child in any way....you can ask them to explain that to you...) but also where the line is. If you can (with the help of her teacher) talk through the behaviours that she simply should not have to put up with from the other child then you can hopefully help her to have a little strategy for dealing....I tell my daughter ask them once not to do it, saying why you don’t like it , ask them again as firmly as you can without shouting and then if it still does not stop go and tell a teacher....It is hard for some children to do that I think she needs to hear from her teacher that it’s ok for her to come and tell the teacher if her classmate is being a pain. My daughter is not quiet....I tried all this with her cos she flys off the handle so easily...but sometimes I think the quieter ones get overlooked and -even though we want girls to speak up for themselves- she should not have to change her personality because of some pain in the bum class mate.....

It is a life skill to speak up. But this is a child we are talking about who is still learning basic life skills. That is not an excuse to throw girls like this under the bus.
And agree with the commenter who said we would never accept as adults being put in a position of teaching other adults in a class we attended.

Peer to peer learning is one thing, but if the children aren't taught how to discuss the learning and don't feel safe about speaking to the teacher if their peers are being disruptive then it isn't being taught properly. Also, this dividing of children in terms of ability at this age is completely counter-productive.

YANBU OP I'd hate my child being dragged down like that. You didn't put all this effort into raising a well behaved, studious DD to have her suffer due to another child's lazy parents. I'd definitely talk to the school.

Collaborative learning is one thing... but it doesn't sound like she'll be able to learn anything at all with the child she's been paired with.

YANBU

Speak to the teacher and request that the disruptive child or your DD is moved. I had this issue with my DD all through Junior school. She was happy to work with the less able students but not the disruptive ones. I had a quiet word with the teacher EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Not "guns blazing" but in a calm and measured manner. Focus on your child and not the other, they aren't your concern.