... to be sad at the way Christmas seems to have changed?

[MereDintofPandiculation]

I was brought up to view Christmas as a magical time, but a time above all for giving. Getting together as a family (grandparents cousins, aunts, uncles) because it's one of the few times that the family does get together. Making sure no-one is left out. Learning to enjoy yourself and have a happy time with others even if your home is full of relatives, or you spent an hour on Christmas morning travelling to other relatives who don't make the bread sauce and brandy butter quite as well as your mother.

Nowadays on MN "family" means "me, DH, DC" and Christmas is all about receiving and not giving. "You have a right to spend Christmas in your own home". Everything centres around making it perfect for the children, without any thought of modelling for them the qualities of thinking about other people.

AIBU in thinking this not only makes life more unpleasant for older relatives who are excluded or barely tolerated, but that it also bodes ill for the future, in moving society more towards "it's all about me" and less about taking responsibility as a society for the welfare of all its members?

ukchristmastv.weebly.com/bbc-1985.html

Yabu last Christmas, our lo was 8 months old an on Christmas Eve my ILs gave us an EVICTION ORDER, saying "merry Christmas" as they did so. We lived in the house before they bought it from our previous landlord. So not everyone has family they want to spend time with. They ruined our lo first Christmas and our memories of it. And my family live on the opposite coast from us. You are basing everything on what you experienced, thinking everyone has the same situation.

Advent calandars covered in glitter which would get everywhere when you opened the door each day which would reveal a picture not a gift.

Yes and we still enjoyed them didn't we? Now it is Lego Advent for £25 or a beauty advent for a couple of hundred quid. They really see us coming don't they?

My wee granny, who had nine kids of her own, instantly won my heart when she turned round to my mother one Saturday afternoon and said "do you not think it was time you were getting up the road? The wean'll be sat bored to tears listening to us gassing on." That's the attitude I'm going to take when I'm old and if I'm lucky enough to get grandkids. I'm a bloody adult, I haven't believed in God or Santa for ages and I can easily entertain myself for the day of Christmas with a bottle of fizz and a box set and see everyone on another day so that the kids don't need to travel. I think as an adult you just want to see everyone, the day's not as important, but for the kids, it must be crap to unwrap your presents and then have to put them all to the one side and go out.

Honestly OP - you sound so pompous with your perfect childhood Xmases, and now how you are an exemplar to your own DC with your never ending generosity and kindness.

I think it's life in general which has made my Xmases less than your perfect ideal. I have a dad who is NC, a mum who thinks I should be at her beck and call 24/7 and bitches if I'm not, one brother overseas and one locally who actively avoids spending time with me.

Maybe you could do a post about that too - you could title it "... to wonder why not everybody has the perfect family like me?"

"Learning to enjoy yourself and have a happy time with others even if your home is full of relatives"

Never going to happen in this house. We see relatives but we see them every week anyway. Why I would I do something that would be torture to ds.

would you insist on parents of young children getting first preference for time off work over Christmas regardless of anyone else's wishes or needs

Not regardless of anyone else's needs, no, if someone has a pressing need for Christmas off, caring responsibilities or that sort of thing, that comes first in my book. But when I was still working and we were all adults in the family I took the Christmas shifts gladly because see above, I am an adult and it's been ages since I believed in Santa.

I was brought up to view Christmas as a magical time, but a time above all for giving. Getting together as a family (grandparents cousins, aunts, uncles) because it's one of the few times that the family does get together. Making sure no-one is left out.

The problem with this setup is that my extended family were 21 carat, copper bottomed cunts and three days in their company was utterly miserable. It was about as magical and joyous as a rectal examination.

I agree with every word alphajuliet123 says

Thank you, LolaPickle it felt good to say it all even though I feel guilty and selfish because we do have a nice time when we get there. It's the build up that gives me the fear, the C word should be banned until 1st December!

YY Prisa I love make up but would i buy a beauty advent calandar..................nope.

Ive looked at the threads about them on here just to have a nosy.

And yes we were perfectly happy with the picture advent ones back in the day

Clintons cottoned on to the nostalgia for them because they were stocking the picture advent calandars last year.

I was perfectly happy to open a door and see a sprig of holly/snowman/wreath/ Santa / candle etc. And the double doors for Christmas Eve was usually the stable scene.

See for me it was the opposite... I only remember spending one Xmas with one of my nans... and that was only because my dad was living with her after my parents split.

Xmas day was always just me, my brother and mum/dad dependant on whose turn it was.... my mum was one of seven and never saw aunts and uncles on Xmas day or even Boxing Day! We didn't even do presents outside the immediate family unit as there was too many of us.

I for one would love to recreate that with our DD at some point in the future, purely because between my mums side, my dads side and my in laws I'm getting fed up of having to spend days on end travelling around everyone on two days I have off work .... especially when they all live in different counties!!! But I understand that that makes me a bit selfish.... but then there's sometimes a need to be selfish!

toomuchtoold I think Christmas is about far more than santa. Maybe not to very young kids, but certainly to me.

YABU

I’m in my 30s and only ever spent Christmas at home with my parents and sibling so it’s hardly a new thing!

Can’t you just accept that not everyone does Christmas the same way as you?

@Bloobs

Also, I think this may have something to do with women becoming less willing to run around facilitating everyone's needs/demands and smoothing ruffled feathers, and being more willing to say no.

Christmas involves a fuck of a lot of wifework and in many families it is done mostly by women - the present-buying, the wrapping, the journey planning, the packing (or conversely, preparing the house for guests) etc etc etc. Then the cooking, managing overexcited kids, tidying up etc. I'm sure some men do their share but there are a lot of threads on here from exhausted women doing it all, and others telling them they can say no, which I agree with.

If a woman can actually have herself something resembling a break at Christmas by saying no to in-laws and opting for a day in her pjs on the sofa, I support that

• this in buckets!

i also agree with it all being down to women. wifework

YABU. Some people didnt have the magical Christmasses you describe and want to ensure their children have a different experience.

Some people want to make their own, new traditions with their own children.

YWNBU to say that it’s a shame when older people are lonely at Christmas- that’s horrible. But your idealistic vision of Christmas is not everyone’s experience.

Mere in your OP your sayGetting together as a family (grandparents cousins, aunts, uncles) because it's one of the few times that the family does get together.

yet you have just posted making sure our family members (parents, adult children - we don't have siblings) are welcome and included at Christmas.

I'm beginning to think some of this might be about definitions of close family. When I refer to close family I mean DH & I + our 3 DC and MIL. When I discuss extended family, I'm including the BIL's, SILs, Nieces, Nephews and partners. Extended family Xmas's to me is 20-30 people (and a lot of wife work).

As I said previously I have hosted extended family members for many years and have had enough. I will welcome them gladly any other day during the festive season but not for Xmas dinner. I'm sorry that makes you sad, but I'm over being made to feel guilty.

I grew up having Christmasses just us 4 at home. Yes we saw relatives before and after during the Christmas holidays and about twice we had my grandmother to stay with us, but the point was that we woke up in our own home and Christmas dinner was (bar twice when it was for five) just for four.
Most of my friends were similar and DH the same. He saw family a lot over Christmas and Christmas was definitely a wider family thing but just their small family did presents together at home and had Christmas dinner.

For some reason (even though neither set did it themselves) both sets of parents expected that we’d go back to spend Christmas in their houses but as soon as I had a DC I stopped doing that because I’m happy to see family but I want to do Christmas in my own home, and actually neither set wants to come on Christmas Day and they’re quite far away anyway so it’s just us on the big days. Exactly as it was growing up.

Probably a little less busy seeing people but I think that’s more because DC is very young and probably as they get older and we all get more family friends Christmasses will get a bit busier.

Christmas has become something magical for me now that I have children of my own. Our own childhood christmas’s were quite cold and not very jolly or fun. I don’t even remember them really, maybe one or two. But for my kids I go all out to make it special for them. We make up packages for the London MET Christmas gift thing they do for children in care. We happily will have anyone over to our house, the more the merrier. But drag 3 children away from their new toys so that they can go on a dreary drive to sit stiffly and politely at someone else’s house where they have to ask if they want to eat anything or go to the toilet. No, I won’t do that.

So yes, Christmas has changed, it has become better!

AIBU in thinking this not only makes life more unpleasant for older relatives who are excluded or barely tolerated Older relatives are barely tolerated due to their unpleasantness - you reap what you sow.

My mother has always been a complete nightmare at xmas, stressed and angry and dad was always excessively drunk. So the opportunity to spend time with my parents over xmas is not something I have ever relished and having an excuse to avoid it has helped me learn to tolerate that time of year. Mil is a JW is not much Xmas on dh's side. So now we just me dh and the dc we have whatever food we want - we do whatever we please, with no arguments, no unpleasantness....god why would you want anything else?

Yes - the women's work thing, how true.
I put my foot down years ago after getting fed up with spending Christmas eve, Christmas day and boxing day mostly in the kitchen. I realised one year I hadn't even been outside for 3 days. I am aware now that my mother did much the same in my youth.
It's a sad fact that if christmas was left to (most) men, there would be no decorations, no presents and very little in the way of cheer.
My family is a bit spread out these days. We prefer to get together during the better summer weather now, rather than cramming in long journeys over a few seasonal days in possibly shitty driving conditions.

I’m glad I’m not in a marriage where it’s all left to the woman. Sounds shit. DH does half the present shopping, we decorate the house together, I wrap (he’s crap at it), he does the food shopping and the vast majority of the cooking. He’ll do even more of it this year as I’ll be 39+5 weeks pregnant on Christmas Day!

Frankly if you are hosting 15 for the Christmas period overnight stays too that's both of you full stretch.

Christmas is magical for kids because they broadly are exempt from the drudge, prep and planning. Happy days!

HarrySinger Not all older people are stressed or drunk at Christmas. It is not right to assume that all parents/grandparents will be like that.
Quite often it is the other way around and the grandparents are faced with drunken company over Christmas.

It's not right? Stillme1 It's reality! If my parents had behaved better and were more pleasant I'd have wanted to spent xmas with them. Old people are not saints they can be horrid too and I don't wish to be around horrid people on xmas day.