To think I’ve accidentally brought from someone dodgy??

[sorryimgettingemotional]

I went to view some Pomeranian puppies a few week ago and put a deposit on the one I fell in love with. Everything seemed legit, the guy selling them answered all my questions and was happy to be paid by a bank transfer so nothing rang any bells.

Since then though I have found another ad for a completely different litter of Pomeranian puppjes, I’d found my puppy I wanted by then so usually wouldn’t have looked but something was telling me to open the ad but now I wish I hadn’t as i can’t stop thinking of the worse case scenario.

When I opened the ad the rug stood out me and I couldn’t work out why until I realised it’s the same rugs they had in the house when I viewed my puppies, the more I scrolled through I started to think it’s actually the same place! Then I done a little digging and found out the person who I went to see and the person posting the ad have the same surname! The puppies will also be ready to leave within only a few days if each other.

Now, there is a reason why it may just be a coincidence (??) When I say house, they actually lived in some fancy kind of mobile home in a place where there are hundreds of the same kind of mobile home so it’s entirely possible that the inside would have have the same sort of flooring and kitchen and as they’re related they also had the same rugs and dog bed.

I am just not sure though. Have i been completely oblivious and too trusting and brought from someone dodgy? :( How do I even go about finding out. I pick my pup up on Friday so I just do not know what to do now!!! 😫

I'd say that if you love your dog, breeding from them is the absolute last thing you'd want to do.

There must be some profit in it otherwise no breeder - reputable or not, would breed.

It’s hard work up all night looking after the pups.

We had a dalmatian growing up, she got out one day (5 year old db’s fault) ended up mating with a standard poodle. She was spayed soon as we could after her litter.

It wasn’t easy looking after pups, they were adorable so luckily found homes for them. And we kept one. But no one paid for them. We could have made a fortune if that had been now. Different times the 70’s. They were seen as mongrels then.

There must be some profit in it otherwise no breeder - reputable or not, would breed.

Most breeders breed as a hobby, it's not something they do to make a profit of any kind. There's a big difference between people who's bitch escaped in heat and got pregnant, and someone who specifically breeds for the right reasons (working dogs, or working to improve the breed in some way)

Puppies aren't cheap. Before you even plan a pregnancy you have to pay stud fees and find a suitable stud for a bitch, which involves making sure both dogs are health-tested and hip-scored, and that these results are available for prospective buyers. Once pregnant, you have to pay for extra food, take time off work for the birth and the first few weeks of the puppies lives to make sure they're all thriving and not struggling to feed in any way. You have to make sure the bitch doesn't reject her litter, as well. Any pregnancy complications and vet visits also need to be paid for as most insurance won't cover the costs of issues/illnesses that arise during/as a result of pregnancy.

You then need to pay for flea and worm treatment for all the puppies, and before they go to their new homes you need to sort out microchips and ideally, the first round of vaccinations. Most owners expect to have a months insurance as well, which also costs money. The pups should also be KC registered and go home with a puppy pack - so insurance and paperwork, a toy/blanket that smells of mum, and ideally some food as well.

The people who do make a profit, as a rule, are those who have done no health tests, and who (most of the time) breed crosses or mongrels. They don't bother with health tests, the pups may have had OTC flea or worm treatment but no jabs or anything like that. Do it the wrong way and you can make a fortune, but it's not the right thing to do for the bitch or her pups.

No really, excellent reputable breeders doing it properly, are not making a profit out of it.

In addition to what adaline has posted..

Travelling the country showing or working your dogs, or seeing other dogs shown or worked - costs a bomb. A single entry into a champ show is £23, plus your food and fuel for the day, plus that is a day you aren't working and many are thurs/friday/sat/sun, it isn't just weekends...

Time off whilst you actually have the litter - lets say both of you have 3 weeks off work and you pay someone to cover a couple of weeks because you cannot go and leave a litter of puppies 8 9 hours whilst you work. This tends to be unpaid leave, or a period where a self employed person just doesn't earn.

The costs of keeping dogs, insurance, food, vets, running on pups to see if they are the right quality then rehoming or selling on at a reduced price when they are older if it turns out they are not.

You also need a slush fund, around 3 to 5K on hand because whelping emergencies are not covered by any insurance, you need a middle of hte night bank holiday emergency c-section doing, you fund that up front yourself.

If you aren't doing the above, arent travelling, working, showing your dogs and seeing other peoples dogs out and about, you aren't doing it right because you don't know that you are breeding the best to the best, you've no idea how your dogs stack up against anyone elses.

So yeah, good breeders don't make a profit, they MIGHT break even in the short term, but long term, they are not even covering their own costs - its something they do because they are passionate about their breed, NOT for money.

Thank you for the explanations.

*You can’t “go to a shelter” is the problem.

Most have very strict criteria - no children, no main roads, no working outside of the home. *

What? Not in my experience. I went to RSPCA and Battersea Dogs Home in my search - I work full-time outside the home. Neither place asked me about main roads. Lots of their dogs were considered OK with older children and teenagers. Some OK with primary school age children. I was welcomed at both places and ended up getting a Battersea dog.

Before I get slammed about my working hours for above, I had in place lovely dogwalkers and also don't work FT all the year round.

MrsJoy I think it depends on the home. A rather large rescue centre near me turned us down as one of my children was under the age of 12. Yet we both worked from home, had a large garden, lived next door to a park and yes, the kids were young but we had dogs before, both kids ride so are not scared of animals and our vet offered to give us a reference. But they still refused us.

I don't have any sympathy for people who by from puppy farms or frankly anyone. What's wrong with a rescue dog?

Professormoody, I got my 2 puppies from Pets4homes and they are wonderful. They are pedigree and KC registered healthy puppies with vaccination records from vet. There are some people who breed their dog just once and want a good home for the puppies. They are not registered breeders but we saw our 2 puppies feeding from their Dam. You can't tar all with same brush.

We bred two litters and advertised on the Internet OP on more than one site.

However mum and dad fully heath tested, pups health checked, insured, vaccinated. New homes fully vetted - questionnaires sent out to gauge suitability, references requested. We also had a solicitor draw up contract to state no breeding and no rehoming to anyone other than us. First vaccinations given, microchipped, flea and worm treatment, invite to online owners forum, follow up calls etc and lifetime of support.

Advertising online meant we could be very choosy about new owners however as demand was absolutely massive.

Hardest fucking thing I have EVER done in my life mind you!

People complain about rescue centres not letting them have the dogs they want but it's worth remembering that those rules exist to protect the centre from getting sued if a rehomed dog reacts badly to family life with under-8s and bites a child. It also helps to stop people taking and then returning dogs that aren't suitable for their lifestyle. It's not personal to the individual families, or petty. Those rules exist for a reason. It's worth talking to them or even volunteering there if you want to make it clear you take it seriously and know what you're doing.

Also re the vaccination comments, if mum is still allowing pups to feed when 1st vaccination is due then some vets advise delaying as antibodies in milk can interfere with efficacy of vaccine.

The situation can be variable!

good advice MissusGeneHunt

Try googling the phone number, email address etc to see I they are selling any other breeds. Ask vets in the area, the receptionists would probably be helpful. In fact, if they are kosher, they should be more than happy to tell you the name of their vet.

@caringcarer

Are your puppies endorsed? Did you see the parent's health test certificates, like their hip and eye scores? Did they let two puppies from the same litter go together?

Those would all be massive red flags to me, and I'd you didn't see the tests, if the puppies aren't endorsed and if they let two pups go together, they aren't a reputable breeder.

it sounds like a puppy farm, mobile home, could mean large gypsy family.
Don't get involved with the people anymore OP, and inform RSPCA

We bought our lab from P4Hs. I was browsing, like I do on Rightmove, just to look at lovely pictures and with no intention of buying. But he and one other were unsold out of a litter of eight, and literally five mins up the road so it felt like kismet.

They are a couple who have dogs for working and breed a litter when they need a new generation. Living on a small holding with lots of other animals.

We met them several times in the weeks before we took him home, we met three prior generations of our dog’s family. They lived in clean airy kennels and were all beautiful and obedient, bred for temperament and working ability. KC registered, had to sign a contract regarding returning him etc. Oh and we paid £800.

Anyway, my point is it’s not always going to be dodgy buying on line. You just have to use your gumption.

It’s ridiculous to suggest that every single online seller is unscrupulous.

I must be stupid? Why does placing adverts on different sites and selling from a mobile hope scream ‘puppy farmer’. Mobile homes aren’t actually that mobile, you have to abide by gazillions of rules on the sites and all kinds of people live there.

My friend bred from her 2 doggies, twice. The pups are kc registered but she didn’t have a waiting list! I agree selling on FB is low, especially if the person does no checks on who is taking the pup, but there’s a lot of ‘normal people’ in between puppy farmers and top Crufts breeders.
If all we all buy are from Crufts lines the inbreeding problems will get worse and worse!

“Normal people” shouldn’t really be breeding. It takes knowledge that most dog owners just don’t have. What tests do you have to do on both prospective parents? Hip? Heart? Eyes? Some may be specialist tests.
Coefficient of breeding? Health of past litters? What did the dogs the sire and dam are descended of die from and at what age?
It’s not a case of letting two random dogs mate and flogging the puppies for ready cash.

Bunny - and that's exactly why there are so many dogs in rescue. People like that who breed from their "doggies". Absolutely disgusting.

I spent ages trying to find a dog. I have a 3 year old and whilst I have experience and a huge network of doggy friends to help, both RSPCA and dogs trust turned us down. My friends puppy had had a litter. She did it as a one off for enjoyment, a hobby breeder basically. My dog is healthy, happy and the early socialization shows. I'd be gutted if back yard, hobby breeders were stopped because I've seen a few friends have litters and their dogs have been really fab pets

She did it as a one off for enjoyment

Who got to enjoy that then? Not the bitch, I'll bet. Fucks sake.

Pups not being KC registered at that price would be ringing alarm bells for me especially at that price. Why aren't they? It'll be because....

One or both of the parent dogs aren't registered
The bitch is too young
The bitch is too old
The parent dogs are closely related
The bitch has had too many litters
The bitch has had too many C-section births
The pups are offspring of a parent dog with endorsements (parent dog's breeder has said no breeding from that dog)

Also a vet reference means very little. I know of breeders who take their litters to the vet, parents are vaccinated, pups are vaccinated, chipped and checked - all looks above board on the surface but they've also been prosecuted by the RSPCA for living conditions.

The offspring are absolutely fine. I don’t know what my birth mum and dad died off, because I’m adopted. Perhaps my parents should’ve got bigger checks done.

Sorry, I’m being flippant. My mum and Dad live in a mobile home, got ripped off buying a property in Spain, the assumptions and seeming disdainful attitude to them really pisses me off. I’ve got loads and loads of friends who have dogs, some rescue, some from puppies and I literally know not one person who has looked into the causes of grandparents death, and if it’s a first litter how can they answer that? I’m sorry, I just don’t see the average person as going to that degree to get a pup. We had all the docs, met mum and dad, saw the puppies living in what was clearly a dog oriented household, independently spoke to the vet.

I appreciate there’s way too many dogs in rescue but think it’s a bit elitist to say a ‘normal’ person is incapable. And I think getting angry with posters who have a different view clouds the message you want to deliver. Being harangued on a chat forum doesn’t changed hearts and minds.