To think I’ve accidentally brought from someone dodgy??

[sorryimgettingemotional]

I went to view some Pomeranian puppies a few week ago and put a deposit on the one I fell in love with. Everything seemed legit, the guy selling them answered all my questions and was happy to be paid by a bank transfer so nothing rang any bells.

Since then though I have found another ad for a completely different litter of Pomeranian puppjes, I’d found my puppy I wanted by then so usually wouldn’t have looked but something was telling me to open the ad but now I wish I hadn’t as i can’t stop thinking of the worse case scenario.

When I opened the ad the rug stood out me and I couldn’t work out why until I realised it’s the same rugs they had in the house when I viewed my puppies, the more I scrolled through I started to think it’s actually the same place! Then I done a little digging and found out the person who I went to see and the person posting the ad have the same surname! The puppies will also be ready to leave within only a few days if each other.

Now, there is a reason why it may just be a coincidence (??) When I say house, they actually lived in some fancy kind of mobile home in a place where there are hundreds of the same kind of mobile home so it’s entirely possible that the inside would have have the same sort of flooring and kitchen and as they’re related they also had the same rugs and dog bed.

I am just not sure though. Have i been completely oblivious and too trusting and brought from someone dodgy? :( How do I even go about finding out. I pick my pup up on Friday so I just do not know what to do now!!! 😫

You can’t “go to a shelter” is the problem.

Most have very strict criteria - no children, no main roads, no working outside of the home.

There are dogs available but often they are staff type dogs which aren’t for me (I don’t have a dog now but I needed a smallish breed - lapdog really.)

It isn’t as clear cut as rocking up to your shelter and adopting any more than adopting a child is.

Contact details aren't proof of anything I'm afraid.

I'm a member of a Facebook group for people who own the same breed as me. One girl recently got what she thought was a KC registered dog with papers and vaccines. Only the vaccination sheet was fake and belonged to a completely different dog. Her puppy wasn't vaccinated at all. Thankfully it survived but it's not the dog she paid for and she has no idea what health problems or hereditary issues it could have.

Why oh bloody why would you buy a dog off Pets4Homes of all places? It's basically Gumtree for pets! Any idiot can sign up and sell their pets for thousands of pounds - you don't need credentials or proof to advertise puppies on there.

Adopting isn't easy but the choice isn't "adopt or support a puppy farm" - there are plenty of decent breeders out there but too many people can't be bothered to do their research and just see a cute puppy and want it then and there.

Whilst most people here are assuming the worst, it could be just an amateur breeder - I'm confused though why you would pay so much without a pedigree.

We bought our dog knowing he wasn't pedigree from a farmer (sheep farmer that is) but was only charged £75 - we figured they weren't in it for the money so we're probably legitimate! He did have worms mind you, solved very quickly and wasn't vaccinated, but not all farmers do vaccinate sheepdogs as they don't mix with other dogs in the same way.

I understand the logic of choosing a breed and researching the breed club getting a list of reputable breeders for that breed etc but what if you are against pedigree dogs in general (genetic issues, kennel club not allowing animals in from overseas to increase the gene pool etc)
What if you want a mixed breed/mongrel but have children so no shelter will consider you? (And you don't want a staffie)

I didn’t buy off Pets4home, someone used that site to show how much a Pomeranian costs near them, I only went on to show that it’s not the same where I am and the price I was willing to pay was fairly standard.

I also did do my research, I spent months researching what breed I wanted and then finding what I thought was decent breeder, it just turned out afterwards he probably wasn’t all he appeared to be.

Where did you find the breeder, OP?

Even if he gives you the vet details, don't buy the pup.
This was one of our local vets - he enabled the sale of literally thousands of puppies....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-44902044

Not everyone can/wants to adopt though. We have cats and kids and I wanted a certain breed.

There is a rescue for pretty much every breed out there, so your reasoning is wrong

But may not be suitable for that family liz

And may not pass the adoption criteria.

It's not impossible that other members of their family also have Poms. We used to have neighbours who had Shih Tzus and their mother and sister also had them. They all showed them at Crufts and so on - it was basically an incredibly all-consuming hobby that they all shared. Their best puppies used to sell for an absolute fortune, but there were always some that were in some way unsuitable for showing (usually something to do with their backbones, I think) that they sold for less outside the specialist networks.

That being said, I think they are over-charging you for a dog with one parent that is not KC registered, and that is a bit of a red flag. It does make it seem like their target buyers are people who they can try it on with because they don't know much about dogs. Whether they are doing this because they are puppy farmers or because they are just chancers trying to overcharge for a lesser dog, it is impossible to say.

*But may not be suitable for that family liz

And may not pass the adoption criteria.*

Shouldn't a rescue automatically be the first place to look though ?
Many dogs from rescues can be rehomed with cats and kids.
If it was up to me, there would be HUGE fines and long sentences for unlicensed breeding & selling of animals

I bought our golden retriever from Pets4homes - and he’s fine! 7 years ago, £600. There is a happy medium between puppy farms and hanging out at Crufts, you know. All we wanted was a family pet - couldn’t care less about its bloodlines! As it happens he is a proper pedigree (mum/dad were show dogs - can’t rememver which one) but they were also family pets.

My dad has also had a couple of litters of vislas (well, his bitch has, not him!) - he is not dodgy or a puppy farmer - just likes dogs/puppies , and he has sold both litters online and to local people. It can be totally legit!

That’s what I was thinking of sha

Puppy farms are awful and miserable but not every non professional breeder with year long waiting lists is a puppy farmer.

I wouldn’t look at a rescue dog Liz as I wouldn’t be accepted.

Ignore all the previous posters spouting about reputable breeders having pups vaccinated before selling, this is not true.
*
The only legal requirement is for microchipping.*

Vaccines come in all different varieties and without knowing specifically which first vaccination strain was given, the vets recommend restarting them all.

This results in a toxic overload of chemicals and is not recommended.

It's much better for the new owners to vaccinate as all vets are different.

As an aside, there's a vast amount of breeding in between puppy farms and recommended breeders.
There are registered breeders in my area who are always recommended but I'd never buy a dog from them. Dogs are all kennelled and they have 4 different breeds on the go at one time. They are also heavily involved in showing dogs, something I don't generally agree with either.

In a nutshell, choose carefully. £1700 is excessive for a non KC reg pup and does smack of greed on the breeders part. Most puppy farms pump out pups with fake KC papers anyway so you can never really tell.

Don't let a bunch of strangers on here put you off completely, just have your eyes open and take someone along with you and perhaps ask more questions than before.
Particularly ask to see photos of the mother from birth of this litter. If she's a genuine pet, they should have hundreds.

Regarding vaccinations.... We recently got a puppy (from a registered breeder, though she is a mongrel from an accidental litter between one of their lovely KC studs and the family pet) and she WASN'T vaccinated as they said they would only do both sets of jabs (8wk + 12wk jabs) or none at all. They said this was due to a pup from one of their previous litters having an adverse reaction. Apparently this particular pup's vet said "their" vaccines were incompatible and that the pup would need the first set again rather than just the second / 12wk lot, which made the puppy very very poorly, caused upset for the new owners and the breeders who got blamed / accused and an also a big argument with the respective insurance companies (who played blame tennis) etc etc. So the vaccine thing may but necessarily be indicative of anything sinister.

Crosspost with @Failingat40 about the vaccines there.

@LizB62A
I wanted a wolfhound. The likelihood of one coming up that was good with kids and cats and without issues that would be too much for a first time owner? I’d be more likely to get a unicorn.
@Shaboohshoobah1
Nobody should buy from pets4homes. Your pup may have been lucky but I bet the poor breeding bitch wasn’t. Litters of dogs because you like dogs? Erm no. You have a dog because you like them. You don’t need to breed.
Good breeders want to breed for a reason. The next generation, a dog to do a particular job, to improve the breed or pass on good health and confirmation etc. Nobody should be breeding just because their dog has a nice nature or they think it’ll be nice to have pups.

JFC some of those recent comments are just astounding.

You don't just breed a dog. I've heard people say that a bitch "needs" to have a litter. No! You want the money!

No puppy I have ever bought from very reputable breeders have been vaccinated. That's down to the new owner.

My dad did exactly that - what’s wrong with that? (Genuine question) He met a lady with another visla and they’ve had 2 litters - she won’t be having any more.
Same as the one I bought from - it was her 2nd litter and she was just their family dog. Lovely family who just love retrievers. Why can’t people have puppies cos they like them? (Again, genuine question!) My dad is not an evil dog breeder, just loves dogs! Honestly. People like that can exist!

Why does loving dogs mean you have to force them to churn out puppies? Did he keep every single one?

I cannot believe anyone would pay that amount of money for a puppy.

My old neighbour bred Argentinian Bull Mastiffs, bloody massive they were. The adults could stand on their hind legs & be head & shoulders above the fence, it was very intimidating. His bitch had 14 puppies. He kept them in filthy conditions & left them unattended all day whilst he was at work. He sold them all for £800 a piece!! That's £11,200!!!! It's no surprise people breed dogs, easy money. I was so glad when he moved out.

Ugh.

Shoot me, I skim read but still..

registered breeder and licenced breeder ... these terms may not mean 'reputable, honest, producing quality, healthy animals', but unfortunately people think they do.

There is no such thing as a registered breeder - there are people producing Kennel Club Registered puppies and there are Assured Breeders of Kennel Club Registered puppies (ie, the KC has checked them, they must meet a higher criteria in housing, and breeding).

Licenced breeders are commercial enterprises - you require a licence if you produce what the goverment/local authority deems to be sufficient to be considered a business.

Breeding domestic dogs as a financially viable business is ONLY possible if you cut corners somewhere.

Some licenced breeders are simply considered commercial because of the numbers they have, and are not making a profit and are doing a good job, but many more are, and are cutting corners to do so.

we aren't bothered about bloodlines or Crufts... you don't need to be, but theres no GOOD reason for anyone to be producing pedigree dogs that are not, or cannot, be registered or produce registered offspring. Only bad reasons (ie, bitch too young, bitch produced too many, bitch not actually registered herself may not even be pedigree...)

whilst I am at it...

vet checked in reference to the puppies, ie a vet has cast an eye over them at some point before you take yours home, is NOT the same as health tested parents, ie the parents have been tested for known genetic conditions and these results are available for you to see.

It sounds like the OP has bought from a puppy farmer or puppy importer - both are bad but the latter is worse as theres a much greater risk of your puppy bringing rabies into your home, as these are imported without the rabies jab or before it can be given or are given it too young before it can actually work.

@Shaboohshoobah1 I love puppies too but that doesn't mean I'd force my dog through a pregnancy when I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

Dogs are not people - they don't get broody or need to sire a litter to feel "manly" or whatever. They're animals. There are enough dogs in shelters without people breeding their pets because "aww puppies!".

Now I'm not against decent breeders. My pup came from a breeder because we didn't fit the criteria for shelters (small garden and we both work - but we use daycare and live in the Lakes so plenty of space for walks!) and he's a delight. The chap has had three litters in total from his bitch, ours being the last. He bred from her once every 18 months to a year and she's six now so ours was her final litter and she's now been spayed.

I'm still in touch with him and every owner of his pups from our litter as well as previous ones. There's nothing wrong with breeding if you're doing it for the right reasons and are prepared to lose money from it. Puppies raised correctly from birth to eight weeks old are not cheap!

Eighteen months to two years, that should say!