No, DH, you are not fucking 'helping' me

[KatnissMellark]

By doing the dishwasher once in a blue moon

Relatively light hearted. He grew up with a mother who did everything for him, has vaguely learnt to pull his weight but occasionally often slips back into lazy mode and when reminded to contribute to the running of the household is terribly offended and feels I'm calling him a bastard. I'm not most of the time

I don't buy into the whole narrative around not having to do it as a child/mum did everything/nobody taught them.....there are lots of things I wasn't taught to do as a child but managed to figure out as an adult.

These are basic life skills and there is no reason why any fully functioning adult can't figure out what needs doing around the house.
Men "helping" women is pure misogyny - nothing else.

BlaaBlaaBlaa

Totally agree.

I was taught nothing as a child- did no chores, never washed up, never took out garbage.
My OH didn't grow up with a mother, he was sent to boarding school at the age of 4, where he often stayed during school holidays too- till the age of 18.

We are both perfectly capable of running a home.

How much figuring out does it take to shift your own crap?

@speakout exactly. Funny how many of these men manage to hold down very important jobs but can't work washing machine 🙄
And don't get me started on the women that facilitate this behaviour. ...

When you’re raised to not see chores to be done, it takes a lot of work to ‘undo’ the bad parenting they evidently went through.

Rubbish.

Not only are some women here facilitating their OHs lazy behaviour they also excuse it because of " bad parenting"- no doubt by their mothers.

Poor little snowflakes.

Causes them to leave their shitty pants on the floor,

Hardly their fault though.

Not only are some women here facilitating their OHs lazy behaviour they also excuse it because of " bad parenting"- no doubt by their mothers.

Thanks for taking my post out of context. I might be a ‘snowflake’ but at least I’m an articulated one. If you bothered with the rest of my post, you’d realise I personally have never put up with it, and I have never just ‘blamed his mother’ for not instilling how important housework is. In my case (or my partner’s) he was raised by both parents to not bother as they ‘didn’t believe children of school age should do anything other than schoolwork’. He literally hadn’t had to lift a finger for himself until he left home, and severely struggled for the first few months. That’s bad parenting, from both of them. Parenting is more than just keeping kids warm, fed and loved. We’re meant to teach them to be functional adults, regardless of sex. All we can do is not pander to the behaviour now, and raise our future kids better.

Padparadscha

Again you are excusing these men- blaming others.

I don't care what type of upbringing someone has had- nothing excuses them from dealing with their own shitty pants.

nothing excuses them from dealing with their own shitty pants.

who says they don’t? You’re having a race to the bottom here. It’s not a case of never ever doing anything, it’s just some people can not see mess until they realise there’s no clean dishes/clothes or the bin is overflowing, and it’s something that’s been ingrained in them since childhood. Some people are naturally more tidy than others, so if you’re not house proud and never been ‘forced’ to do chores to appreciate how nice a home can be isn’t going to come naturally, is it?

To be fair, it’s not always down to bad parenting, I have known a couple of people (actually more women than men, but just my experience) who are utter slobs and live in perpetual chaos. My ex boyfriend on the other hand was a neat freak, to the point it was part of the reason I dumped him. As I said previous, no one should put up with this behaviour, and we can make sure the future generally of both sex know that they have to take care of their own households.

it’s just some people can not see mess until they realise there’s no clean dishes/clothes or the bin is overflowing, and it’s something that’s been ingrained in them since childhood.

I don't buy that.

How do these people who can't wash a plate or see an overflowing bin function at work?

I don't buy into the upbringing stuff.

It's to do with laziness and lack of respect for others.

Husband described himself as having made a 'sacrifice' for me because he looked after his own kids for the weekend whilst I attended vocational training (and no, he hadn't given up something particular he wanted to do that weekend either).
Things like this are why I don't call him DH.

Did you not see this before you married the useless lump? How long have you been putting up with him. May be too late now without big rows.

I don't buy that

Oh well then, with your well thought out and balanced view, your obvious so right and I’m so very wrong . Laziness is obviously not from bad parenting (especially treating boys as little princes) or a personality trait that needs extra effort to stop. Many men are just biologically programmed to ignore mess and expect women to sort it all, and we should all just dump our partners if they show any hint of ‘mess blindness’, otherwise we’re pandering to them. Excellent to know!

seal style enthusiastic clapping for washing a teaspoon

Many men are just biologically programmed to ignore mess and expect women to sort it all, and we should all just dump our partners if they show any hint of ‘mess blindness’, otherwise we’re pandering to them. Excellent to know!

Bullshit! Funny how they don't ignore similar issues at work. And yeah, I dumped any man who showed he couldn't function like a fucking adult well before getting too involved with him because I didn't need a lazy arse sexist in my life. If I went to their flat and it was a shit tip I turned round and walked out. Ditto if their car was a state. Showed to me they had no respect for their things and no interest in being a functional adult. Fuck that. I never had chores growing up, either, but amazingly enough it wasn't hard to figure out how to clean, maintain my things, cook or well, lose my deposit, not be able to replace my things or eat cheaply. Imagine that. It's not hard. You can learn without training. Training is for dogs.

If a man said that ...

Padparadscha

How do these poor men programmed to have mess blindness manage at work?

I posted earlier about a frying pan... have come home and it has been washed. Wonder if DH has joined MN?
He’s actually does a fair-ish amount about the house with some ridiculous exceptions... washing pots being one of them.

And yeah, I dumped any man who showed he couldn't function like a fucking adult well before getting too involved with him because I didn't need a lazy arse sexist in my life.

You can learn without training

Since when is it sexist to be lazy? It’s not an attractive trait, I very much agree, but it’s only sexist if a man is bringing you around purely to clean his flat.

Some people do need to be ‘trained’ as with anything you learn in life if you’re not naturally adept to it. I was brought up expecting to do chores and it was/still is a big pain in the backside for me. I would do the dishes and not think twice about drying them/wiping down the counter tops/brushing the floor etc whilst at it. I had to be ‘nagged’ by parents until it became second nature to do it. If they hadn’t, I’d definitely be less ‘bothered’ by mess, and have only been a ‘properly’ tidy person since having children.

How do these poor men programmed to have mess blindness manage at work?

Because going to work is usually not filled with menial tasks, unless you’re a housekeeper? And no, that’s not excusing men again, these jobs are boring and however does them. This isn’t actually about men not seeing these things though, it’s about why they don’t and breaking that mentality. No point trying to compare two different work examples such as ‘Barry is an accountant handling big business clients, so why can’t the lazy sexist fucker clean under the toaster??!!’.

I'm not naturally adept at wiping my arse.

But I am an adult.

I'm not naturally adept at wiping my arse.

Well it would be difficult for those with their heads shoved up there.

Because going to work is usually not filled with menial tasks, unless you’re a housekeeper?

Very few jobs are high level break or make a deal type.

And many jobs involve "menial tasks".

Laboratory workers have to keep areas tidy, engineers have to keep their equipment and tools stored correctly, many jobs will involve disposing of paper, or ink cartridges or empty containers.

How do they manage?

How do they manage?

Probably far better than at home where many people just come home and want to switch off after a long day. I knew a nurse who obviously had to keep on top of much organisation at work, her house was awful! Obviously, there are far more men that are messier than women, but you don’t seem to have an answer to why that is.

My partner has just 'rearranged' the cutlery drawer...... Like he thinks I throw it in from the other side of the kitchen (I do..)
The best bit was when he said 'if WE could try & keep it like that'

I was at a gig a few weeks ago by myself and I overheard a bloke and woman talking and making small talk. They were asking questions about each other and she said that she had two kids. The fella asked who was looking after them that evening and she said her husband was. It took a lot to stop me butting in when he said 'Ah, that's good of him' and whats more she agreed with him!!

Used to rush like a loon laundering the children's school uniforms on Friday, packing them neatly into a suitcase, before driving across London in time to drop the children with my ex for weekend contact... Sometimes some of the clothes were still damp, so I'd text, "please take them out of the suitcase and hang them up as they are still a little damp" He complained to Social Services, so now he gets the dirty uniforms to clean himself... ARSE! God knows why I bothered in the first place, just didn't want them going to school in dirty kit...