To ask you: All In or All Out?

[Quietrebel]

All seems to indicate that it's now crunch time for the UK. In the style of another active thread, I'd like to ask you all what you'd go for if given a binary choice between No Deal at all with the EU or Remain.
No blame game or mud slinging, just simple polite answers please.

This petty mentality of “we can do whatever we want because we got rid of the EU” would be laughable if it wasn’t so serious.

Countries that "do what they want" tend to get squished eventually.

Even the mighty US is starting to have to take a little bit from China ... and boy don't they hate it.

It's one of the reasons they hate the EU. It stops them being a bully boy in Europe. Notice that they have signed up to GDPR even though it's an EU regulation. Maybe it's the US that needs to leave the EU ?

For all their bollocks about "sovereignty", I've not heard a Brexiteer acknowledge that the UK also considers itself bound by UN treaties (so where's the sovereignty there ?). In fact, the UK has more than once made reference to the fact that UN treaties are why we have to have certain laws. And I don't recall who I voted for to sit on the UN in the "UN elections" that we must have to keep Brexiteers happy about "unelected bodies".

Remain.

For those wanting statistics that are outside of Mumsnet:

"More than 100 parliamentary constituencies which backed Leave in the 2016 referendum would now vote to remain in the European Union, according to new analysis of polling"

Independant news link

It is NOT democratic to do the opposite of what the majority of a country wants.
The leave vote won on the basis of lies and propaganda.

They don’t care about that.
And wanting ‘no deal’ where we would be completely at the mercy of other organisations and have no say ourselves does kind of suggest ‘democracy’ isn’t as important to brexiteers as they like to pretend it is.

Remain.

'Independence' is the very last thing Brexit will give us. We will be at the mercy of every country that we go cap in hand to, pleading for a trade deal.
The US has already made clear that if we want a trade deal with them we will have to accept their hormone dosed beef and chemically treated pork and chicken. Is that independence?

That's an interesting point anothercareerthread. If the country now seeing the absolute shambles this is, and understanding better than they did at the time of the referendum what kind of disaster this is, and the vote was only advisory in the first place, I think probably the onus is now on another one as the right thing to do.

I am wondering if ultimately we will end up staying. I think that's what the eu wants, to prevent other countries leaving, it's what the majority of British people want, and I suspect it's what most politicians also want, so uou have to ask yourself what the fuck we are doing here.

I think we may well end up staying, possibly after another referendum on a possible deal and which includes a Remain option.

Remain.

Bluelady i think it's possible to, it could be no deal or remain and the country votes. Either way we've six months to nail this and I am unsure how feasible it is.

'I think we may well end up staying, possibly after another referendum on a possible deal and which includes a Remain option.'

I really bloody hope so. Surely the government won't want their lovely legacy tarnished with the utter shitstorm of a no deal situation?

Remain.

(I don't think I will ever get my respect back for those people doing the "leave at all costs" thing. Ever.)

Geraldine, yes I was being sarcastic. I meant that the likes of Farage and JRM will be fine, whereas I may not be.

I believe that immigration has overall been extremely positive for the economy, which is presumably why the government has rarely bothered to enforce its powers to deport unemployed EU migrants.

I've heard several Leavers talk about only wanting high-skilled migrants. That makes me imagine a society where non-Brits take many of the high-paid jobs, whereas Brits serve them in shops and restaurants, pick the fruit and veg, do the cleaning and collect the rubbish. I'm not convinced that's better than the current situation.

I think that’s because they know deep down the EU is an intransigent self serving organisation which is not flexible, inclusive or open to the concerns of its citizens

Yep. So intransigent. So inflexible. So unwilling to listen to the concerns of its citizens.

I mean, if only they'd listened to us when we said we didn't want to be in the Euro. Or Schengen. If only we had some kind of...I don't know...veto? So we could say no to stuff we didn't like?

God, imagine that, eh?

Thank goodness we'll be out soon. I for one can't wait for our caring, sharing, flexible and unselfish Tory govt to be unshackled from tedious EU legislation. They've always had our best interests at heart, after all.

I've never been a great fan of being in the EU, but grudgingly voted Remain. I had thought that I liked the idea of a Norway style arrangement but realised that they were in an awkward peripheral postion of being influenced by policies that they couldn't participate in. So it seemed better to stay in and keep the influence that we have.

The timescale to adapt to a No Deal, Hard Brexit is so tight. We may well do well out of it in future generations, but that's a long time to wait. So, if there was another referendum, I think I'd suck up the national humiliation and security blanket of Remain.

Remain

Remain

And if DD (who has just turned 18) were able to post, she'd vote Remain too.

Well, I like to be different but ......

Remain

I'm not doing different for different's sake: I'll just go and get an offbeat hair do or some such

Fennel so well put!

I believe that immigration has overall been extremely positive for the economy, which is presumably why the government has rarely bothered to enforce its powers to deport unemployed EU migrants

I agree. However, the Brexit vote came slap, bang in the middle of the UK being terrorized by minority groups from the Far East. Then came the refugees from the Far East - from the very countries that placed the UK in extreme terror. Merkel adopted a 'come one come all' approach. So they did... and we have all seen the fall out that caused in Europe, as it was publicly televised. All the refugees interviewed stated they were making their way to UK. And, of course, with the EU's policy of free movement the people of the UK became rather concerned that our country would become a haven for immigrants - that we know nothing about, as they were being allowed into EU countries without any form of ID. Plus our schools, housing and NHS were struggling. The job prospects for British people are diminishing rapidly. How would a few extra million people from other countries, living on the backs of the British taxpayer help the UK's economy?

I believe this was the nail in the coffin for the Brexit vote. I don't think anyone wanted to 'get rid' of European nationals living and working within the EU, at all.

Also the info we had was made to seem that out meant just that... a quick, easy divorce. Nobody could ever have envisioned the paraphernalia and great cost we now have to go through to leave the EU. Nothing about this struggle was ever mentioned.

David Cameron is an absolute, utter twat and the one responsible for driving the UK to this carnage.

Now the immigrant from the Far East situation has settled maybe another vote would see people voting to remain. However, I'm not sure if that ship has sailed. UK and EU are at loggerheads. No UK party wants to handle Brexit. Junker is the absolute tosspot he's always been and Merkel is due to be chucked out of office. We have Theresa May. She might not be everyone's cup of tea but I can't think of anyone else I'd like to see negotiate the best Brexit plan for UK.

That's all I have to say on this subject. We are in a situation that we have no control over and have to leave it to those who have far more info than us mere mortals.

Remain. Always.

And, of course, with the EU's policy of free movement the people of the UK became rather concerned that our country would become a haven for immigrants - that we know nothing about, as they were being allowed into EU countries without any form of ID

Surely people concerned about this would have done a little research into freedom of movement, realised that the UK was not in the Schengen area, realised that you can't travel to the UK from another EU country without any form of ID and relaxed a little? But then I suppose being concerned rather than proud of being a haven for immigrants fleeing war does suggest that these people were a bit small minded and unpleasant in the first place, characteristics that go hand in glove with determined ignorance...

Remain

Nobody could ever have envisioned the paraphernalia and great cost we now have to go through to leave the EU.

I agree that most people weren't aware of exactly how incredibly complex it would be. But anyone with a functioning brain cell could have seen that extricating ourselves from 40 years of deals, treaties and funding agreements would be far from 'quick and easy'.

Anyone who fell for that deserves everything they get. Sadly they're going to be taking the rest of us down with them.