to think no one should be regularly working beyond their paid and contracted hours

[Lydiaatthebarre]

I was talking to a neighbour yesterday who said she was exhausted because she rarely gets home from work before 8.30 - 9.00 in the evening. Apparently her contracted hours are 9am - 6pm but 'nobody only works their paid hours, we all end up staying on for an extra hour or two".

AIBU to think that this increasing practise of expecting employees to give up hours of their time, free of charge, is totally wrong and a really backward step?

I'm not talking about a bit of give and take now and again, but a regular practise that seems to exist in many workplaces.

It really gets my back up. Employers totally undermining the minimum wage but mostly, employees allowing them to do it!

Just say NO

For as long as I've been working, I think that, at least in professional roles, there is always been an expectation that employees will work beyond their contracted hours. It's probably a bigger issue now, in our financial climate, when people are anxious about losing their jobs and therefore keen to make a good impression

I read an interesting book recently suggesting that in Denmark, they don't have this late hours culture

It’s sadly very common and expected in my line of work (although the pay is high in recognition of this). For people whose wage doesn’t reflect the expectation of extra hours they should refuse - and make the most of their union!

The NHS would collapse instantly if everyone worked to rule. Leaving late and missing lunch is standard.

Drives me nuts. DH finishes at 5pm but has too much work to be able to leave before 7pm. Imo they shouldn’t be giving him more work than he’s able to do in his contracted hours. But they do, and saying he hasn’t got time to do it isn’t acceptable.

Many teachers are only paid for classroom hours and are expected to do preparation and marking and everything else unpaid in their own time. When I was a teacher I was “offered the opportunity” to do a training day on the new computer system. I asked if I’d be paid and they said no, it was my choice if I wanted to attend - but if I chose not to they’d have to reconsider my ongoing employment as I wouldn’t have the skills to do my job.

YANBU OP. Unfortunately though it is expected of most employees in a professional job. I left 30 mins late on Monday and everyone else was still in and stayed an extra few hours. It's standard practice in my role. I don't think I've met anyone who actually not works their contracted hours at my current company.

Oops sorry. I meant I don't think I've met anyone who actually works their contracted hours.

I worked in Banking for 20 years and DH has now done 30 years.

Contracted hours meant nothing. My contract said 9-5 but if you didn't at least work 8-6 you wouldn't get far in your career.

When I left I was regularly working until midnight if we were getting towards the end of a sales quarter. Overtime payments were done away with in the late 80's.

DH rarely leaves work before 7pm these days and most weeks he has days where he is in the office until 10pm or later.

I think it's appalling employment practice if it's a regular thing.

No-one minds staying late if there's some sort of unexpected event, but if it's just to manage a regular workload, imo it means there aren't enough staff.

If it was the other way round, and staff were regularly going home a couple of hours early, they'd soon get a bollocking if not get fired, but when it's in the employer's favour, they seem to think that's fine.

"Unfortunately though it is expected of most employees in a professional job."

I can't speak for professional roles as I've never really had a job of that calibre, but this was also the case when I had a poxy, NMW warehouse job. Additional tasks would be dished out every couple of weeks, and if we mentioned it may be hard to do extra work in the same time then our time management was called into question. They even tried to include a clause on a draft contract to the effect that staff were expected to complete their tasks regardless of the time they would be finishing, and would only be paid up until their shift end time but not beyond it.

It seems that when you have a job you are supposed to surrender yourself completely to your employer's whims. If you have the audacity to want a life outside of work you are considered to have a poor attitude.

You do realise that you can't be forced to work OT don't you?

Absolutely wrong I would just go home they are not there to be slaves

This is a bugbear of mine. I get totally that some people like teachers and health professionals do genuinely end up having to work super long hours (for which they ought to be paid) and it's very difficult not to in order to get their work done, look after people etc.

But TBH I think most people in office jobs like me could leave at 5 and turn off the work email and honestly no one would die Yes, some people do have evil bosses who would look down on it or even get them in trouble/fire them, but it most office jobs I just wish more people would get up and walk away at the end of the day.

I don't like how some people seem almost to boast about what long hours they put in, when it would sound rather different if they said 'You know, I worked 7 hours unpaid last week!' Screw that!

Long hours are terrible for productivity too.

Dh’s Job is like this. His contracted hours is 9-5 but he’s never out before 7. It’s like standard.
I have had to refuse a new role ( it’s like a promotion) at work for this because I love the fact that I can leave work at 4:30 everyday and pick up from where I stopped the next day.

YANBU for hourly paid workers.

YABU for salaried professional workers on e.g. 40k+ / year. But there needs to be flexibility on both sides - up the hours when needed, leave early on occasions when workload is light.

otoh 'presenteeism' is rubbish irrespective of how much people are paid.

I had a great manager once who said to me (after she’d seen me staying late for a week) that if overtime was needed all the time without special circumstances (we’re accountants so year end, system changes etc) then there were two possible problems - lack of resources or we weren’t working effectively. She said my work was definitely not the issue so it must be resourcing. The next day she redistributed some work and the was that.

Now I’m a manager I keep that lesson in my head.

Just to add, I know I was (and still am) in a fortunate position where we could make those changes. NHS workers, teachers etc have a terrible time and are treated terribly and it’s utterly unfair.

It always seems a nonsense to me. It's not about how long you sit at your desk, it's about how efficiently you do the job. If you get 7 hours work done in 10, well you need to learn to be more efficient. If you get 10 hours done in 7, why stay for 10?

If you are genuinely overworked, that is another issue and employers need to pay more staff.

However, I think we all want staff to work longer than their contracted hours if they are doing something for us! For example, you wouldn't want them to stop a operation because they'd already done 8 hours that day.

TBH I think most people in office jobs like me could leave at 5 and turn off the work email and honestly no one would die

Yes totally this.

If it was the other way round, and staff were regularly going home a couple of hours early, they'd soon get a bollocking if not get fired, but when it's in the employer's favour, they seem to think that's fine

Yes this, too. Although they'd argue that there's always something you could be doing.

I’m a social worker, I don’t know any colleagues who work the contracted 37 hours a week. Like the education and the NHS, social work services would not survive without unpaid overtime. This government has cut public services to the bone whilst dramatically increasing the public debt. I work evenings and weekends as well as our standard hours, it’s not unusual for me to be having email conversations with co-workers at 10am, even at 1am.

I read an interesting book recently suggesting that in Denmark, they don't have this late hours culture

Was that Living Danishly by Helen Russell? It's very interesting - and I bet their productivity is higher than ours despite the shorter working hours.

Had this for every role I've been in for at least the last two decades. All professional office. The upside though has always been give and take - I'd say across the board with that. Maybe I've just worked with good people?

In my field, we actively sign out of the Working Hours Directive and have ‘hours as required’ in our contracts. Its usual for me to be in at 8am and leave at 8pm and frequently do longer hours. No overtime.

Bloody good job I love my work...

I actually found it much more prevalent when I was working PT in shops and bars at college and uni. When working in a
Clothing store, we would be put down for 9-6 but we wouldn't get our much before 8pm as we had to tidy, full timers we're doing that daily.

I'm lucky I don't work somewhere that celebrates presentism and actually has a flexible working culture. Sure there are times you have to stay a bit late to get something done but that's the exception rather than the norm.

We do have people who are competitively busy though, they are seen as a bit disorganised and not able to delegate effectively in the main.