to think no one should be regularly working beyond their paid and contracted hours

[Lydiaatthebarre]

I was talking to a neighbour yesterday who said she was exhausted because she rarely gets home from work before 8.30 - 9.00 in the evening. Apparently her contracted hours are 9am - 6pm but 'nobody only works their paid hours, we all end up staying on for an extra hour or two".

AIBU to think that this increasing practise of expecting employees to give up hours of their time, free of charge, is totally wrong and a really backward step?

I'm not talking about a bit of give and take now and again, but a regular practise that seems to exist in many workplaces.

I’m a lawyer. The whole business model is based on charging clients by the hour, so the firm will always demand that lawyers work more than their contracted hours as that’s how it makes money! The legal profession is getting more flexible in terms of working from home etc. but the billable hours targets won’t change any time soon

Social worker here. My manager is actually very good at not allocating too much work and listens to us when we say we cannot accept any allocations. However, I still work above and beyond my paid hours. It’s impossible to say no when someone phones you in crisis at 4.59 on a Thursday or when they’re unexpectedly homeless and it’s a Friday or there is a child protection concern and you had planned an admin day. Also, people just have so many needs, I fight to meet them all and then spend my own time completing the reams of paperwork. It’s not unmanageable but it’s not easy, especially given the emotional stress it puts me under.

It's one thing when you get reasonable reward cherrypavlova but alot of NHS staff don't. I was with an unwell patient 14hrs after starting work with no break last week but don't necessarily think it's good for anyone involved. I would never walk away. Junior drs work bloody hard alongside many of us. There's probably just not enough of us to go around. We should probably review this situation though, not just think it's okay to expect free hrs from altruistic types.

I once had a boss who was obsessed with the time you worked. You could not be a second late or take more than 30 mins on your lunch break or work late. She would come over and ask why are you still here. Is there a problem? Then lecture you on how you weren't working effectively if you needed to stay even 5 minutes over. It was very unnerving. She was very strange and she was very controlling and she would be in early and stay really late every night. I don't really know why she wasn't a VP just a line manager.

I moved to another department and people always left on time but seemed to come in early. I am not a morning person and would generally be in later than them. So I don't think I actually did work more, I just did the times that suited me. It might if looked like I worked late though.

I would always say was no ones going to die.

@Racecardriver what do you deem a "professional role"?

Depends on the job. I'd rather do an extra couple of hours than try to squash it in to a normal day and get snappy in the process and give myself a headache.

An extra couple of hours a month? A week? A year?

If you mean a year, then yeah, I'd cope. Probably

DP does that, he has to get a set amount done in the week, if he doesn't he'll be in trouble, but the work is probably 60hojrs worth when he's contracted for 40.
On most days I stay at least 30mins after to get things done and do work at home because otherwise they'll ask why it's not done.
I find it really annoying but companies won't employ an extra person because we stay behind and we stay behind because we want to get promoted.

@LemonysSnicket I just can't get my head round this. He works 20 hours a week. For free?? And you do extra for free also?

This thread is eye opening. The number of people willing to give their time for nothing astounds me. I can safely say I've never done that and I never will.

So how do you feel about charity work or even looking after kids. Is that not work for free too?

Looking after kids is a choice, charity work is something you sign up for knowing that you are donating your time.

Working for an employer, who profits themselves, is completely different. If you've been conditioned to feel differently about that then that's a shame. And it's exactly why they are able to continue doing this!

Another NHS worker here. Contracted and paid for 37.5 hours a week, but every week I work at least 42, sometimes more like 48. A few of us took our contracts to our manager a while ago to ask if we could get paid for our lunch breaks as we almost always work through them (which translates to working 12.5 hours with nothing to eat) and she said, "There's not enough money in the pot I'm afraid. The NHS survives because of the goodwill of its staff." There's no option to leave on time or take your allocated breaks, because there simply isn't the staffing.

Yes and no

A CEO won’t work 930 to 530 now will they ? And they get paid for it very well

Over a certain level there is an expectation you go over and above

Yanbu. You agree a wage that indicates what you think your time is worth. Why actively depreciate it?

I’m with you Sparklyfee

I’ve got a responsible, well-paid job. I start sometime between 9 & 9.30 and leave after 8 hours. Occasionally I might do an extra hour or so here and there but it’s rare.

Occasionally they ask me to do an extra day (I’m part-time) or assist another department with my technical knowledge and I get paid overtime if I do, no question.

But for most people - it’s unfair and should not happen. And sadly it does

Working late is also a choice.

At least for me anyway.

I think this is usual in many professional jobs. I also think it often discriminates against women as they are statistically more likely to be balancing childcare with working.
I was doing a volunteer role recently where it was explained that if something came up I would have to stay to complete it. I had to explain that with dc to collect from school this wasn't an option.

Ultimately, this practice undermines wages and prevents job creation, exactly what business and industry want as it helps their profits. Those who work unpaid like this are enabling them. They have to stop playing into the hands of employers.

To follow on from sunnyskys I moved from front line social work when I had dc as I felt the hours weren't possible without more childcare backup than I had. You can't plan for emergency extra hours.

Sorry missing where it discriminates against women. It is the people with kids to collect that HAVE to leave on time and not do extra hours. Are you talking about discrimination in getting a professional job?

'Play into the hands of the employer'. Employers are not the enemy.

It’s really not that simple that people are enabling employers who take advantage

There are many areas of work that have a constant supply of bank/temporary workers some earn more some less than contracted employees

And there are areas of work (health care) that you simply can’t clock off or not work overtime you can’t have that attitude when working with vulnerable people who rely on you

Also you can always be replaced quickly by a bank worker

I’m a teacher, it says 27.5 hours per week on my payslip which is utterly bizarre considering it’s always between 50 and 60 hours however, the pay and holidays are good and I have established a reasonable work/life balance over the last couple of years.