AIBU to say this person shouldn't be allowed...

[ScienceIsTruth]

...to call themselves a woman. Not when they've committed such an awful, usually male, crime. Why are sane people enabling this shit?
I think I'm ready to get off this planet, if it carries on like this.

metro.co.uk/2018/10/01/trans-woman-pretended-to-be-a-boy-to-groom-a-girl-7994533/

@Justanotherlurker

The argument is not about this specific case per se. It is that this case illustrates so graphically what we are talking about.

If self ID became law. People like "Jacinta" would be able to access female only spaces and anyone challenging this would be open to the accusation of hate crime.

People still think the debate is about prejeudice against trans individuals. IT IS NOT. It is about safeguarding children, girls and women and protecting them as far as possible against predatory males.

Too many people still think that "trans" refers to fully, medically transitioned individuals or those intent on that pathway. The umbrella is so wide now that it beggars belief. And "Jacinta" gives a glimpse of the nightmare that is almost a reality.

The tide must turn in order to continue protecting women and children. Protecting the rights of trans individuals is essential too - but it can not be at the cost of safeguarding others.

This is from the Stonewall website:

' The term transgender also includes people who express gender characteristics that don’t correspond with the characteristics traditionally ascribed to the person’s actual or presumed sex. This can include:
• Gender benders • Gender blenders • Drag queens • Drag kings • Butch women
• Effeminate men • Anyone who chooses, for whatever reason, to self-identify as transgender
'

Anyone who chooses, for whatever reason, to self-identify as transgender

That's what stonewall says.

Whoever asked what is going on in W Yorks, it’s where Mermaid’s head office is, their chief exec Susie Green has clearly found the ear of a police officer around there.

W Yorkshire’s police area contains Bradford. Cracking Bradford is key to cracking every single grooming gang in the country because it is the trafficking centre for young girls and women.

W Yorks is historically shit at dealing with grooming, honour violence, sex attacks, violence against sex workers and even catching serial killers who like killing women.

But apparently they have the time to prosecute middle aged women wearing cardigans and hotter shoes who use the wrong pronoun.

Anyone who chooses, for whatever reason, to self-identify as transgender
Even if that reason is to manipulate the prison system, to claim awards, medals or accolades that would be out of reach in their sex category, to gain access to the opposite sex for disingenuous purposes...
Stonewall are facilitating all of the above with their language.

It's not transphobia....

Its dangerous offenders MISUSING the self identification to hide their past/ offend in the future...

THIS IS AN UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE...

absolutely transsexuals should continue to be able to identify in their preferred gender...

This man is NOT transsexuals....

Even if he actually IS a transsexuals, woman and his potential victims should be protected from them

I have asked transsexuals on twitter if they objected to me referring to them as transsexuals in order to differentiate between them and misogynistic TRA’s. They didn’t. Some of them tried to set up an account called TS voices to try and advocate for what they wanted. TRA’s targeted that. Confusing times indeed.

From stonewalls glossary

• TRANSSEXUAL This was used in the past as a more medical term (similarly to homosexual) to refer to someone who transitioned to live in the ‘opposite’ gender to the one assigned at birth. This term is still used by some although many people prefer the term trans or transgender.*

So evidently not yet forbidden though they're evidently trying to phase it out, despite the fact that the 'some' includes many who identify themselves as transsexual. Anyway, something to shove in the pipe of self-appointed censors.

This is not an unintended consequence of self ID, it is self ID. Plain and simple. Hands up who would like Jacinta sharing a tent with your daughter on a girls guides trip? Or Jacinta in a women's refuge? Or women being locked in with Jacinta? Many of them already victims of male violence.
Self ID in action. And when dead naming becomes a crime how are crimes committed as men supposed to be checked when he declares himself a woman?

Anyone who chooses, for whatever reason, to self-identify as transgender

Do you know what, I have no problem with absolutely anyone "identifying as transgender" what I object to is the misuse of the word gender and the extension of self identification to include sex.

Gender has no significant meaning for me. It is impossible to define. For some inexplicable reason, "gender" has come to be used when it should be sex. e.g. on here - how many times have I seen pregnant posters refer to a "gender scan" WTF is that? How can you scan for gender? The scan however can pick up external sex characteristics

Official forms asking for gender when they mean sex. It makes me so angry and frustrated.

Sex is a simple biological fact. And sex is a protected characteristic. Intersex is biologically identifiable too. Gender is vague and subjective.

How you choose to present yourself and live your life or even how you choose to describe yourself is personal. And I would respect anyone's right to do this in their own way. But this right does not extend as far as claiming the rights of another protected group.

Yup, agree with pp - this is self ID. It will not benefit women and children (especially girls). Girls will lose out on sports teams, scholarships etc which have been set up to try to redress the discrimination they face. Not to mention the safety and privacy aspect.

Women need to stand up for their rights.

The Fair Play for Women Guidance is straightforward, even if it looks daunting at a glance.

You can give Yes/No answers, and you don't have to do all the questions.

It's worth doing - if you want to see what all the fuss is about head on over to FWR/feminism chat.

"Women are being erased" is not hyperbole.

Trans-activists (with proper women-haters walking among them) are trying to push this legislation through - and demanding #NoDebate - and resorting to shocking and threatening tactics to shut women up about this.

Act now. As a wise woman just said publicly: This is not a fucking drill.

@Geraldine170 thank you for that re West Yorks Police. Very interesting. And yy re the grooming gangs and their (the police’s) appalling priorities.

And @IamtheDevilsAvocado unintended consequences are still consequences.

It’s not much consolation to the female prisoners who were sexuallly assaulted by male rapist Karen White that no one in authority intended for them to be assaulted. They still have to live with the trauma. They still have to live in a society that they know doesn’t even value them enough to protect them from sexual assault while they’re in a women’s prison.

The fact is they were assaulted and it was a direct result of allowing any men to “identify as women” purely on their own say-so.

Not intended, perhaps, but plainly foreseeable to anyone who has even the slightest experience of predatory men and how they operate.

With this, as a society we are not setting an example, we are showing a warning. I hope the rest of the world takes note.

talking one of those crimes was the Yorkshire Ripper who was arrested 2 minutes walk away from a house I lived in at the time as a toddler. He was held in a police station which was until recently two minutes away from my current home.

It was just good police practice, there was a serial killer in the localish area targeting prostitutes so they were keeping a close eye on them and stopping them with any suspicious Johns. That’s how Sutcliffe was caught, but it was police in South York’s who did it, not West Yorks who were too busy playing keystone cops to go out and do the boring stuff which eventually paid off.

I’ve never liked W Yorks Police since then and they’ve never given me any reason to change that opinion and have just compounded it when I have had the misfortune to come into contact with them.

I remember the Yorkshire Ripper well, I was a teenager at the time and I think every girl and woman was aware of him whether we lived in Yorkshire or not, while he was still out there killing.

That must have been very close to home for you! And I never knew that it was South Yorks that caught him, not West Yorks.

And then there’s Savile...

Exactly. I have toyed with the idea of moving to Leeds, it’s a lovely city. WYP are one of the main things that put me off. I worked in another public sector role with a diversity bod ex of WYP and have come across other ex WYP staff in various roles. They are always very big on going hard and heavy and very visibly against what is the current ‘buzz’ issue. The problem is they don’t seem to be actually any good at dealing with their day to day jobs like policing or staff issues.

Our ex WYP diversity bod was awful. She would make a great show of sending out emails bossing us about saying we shouldn’t go to the pub together because that excluded non-drinking religions, or putting up rainbow flags for pride or giving lectures about not assuming gender, blah, blah, blah. But if someone had their hijab pulled off and got spat at while working or pushed and called a poof or have their boobs grabbed or anything like that she would just hide in her office and refuse to deal with it because it was too scary and difficult. She didn’t last long, went back to WYP. She’s probably involved in this latest round of nonsense tbh.

I can't find a link now but Susie Green has said that a WYP diversity officer has become a close family friend.

That’s really grim, Geraldine. And yes, I’m sure she is involved if she’s still with them.

Interesting, Bore. Makes a lot of sense and depressingly predictable, especially in the light of what Geraldine said. Perhaps it’s the same person!

One of the worst things about all this is how many women are colluding with it all. If we actually had a consensus among women, prominent women particularly, we would have far less of a fight on our hands. It’s hard to see how any woman could defend a policy that would see the “Jacintas” of this world given full legal/social status as women. And yet they do.

Even though none have actually come on here to defend that particular abusive man, they defend and enable the policy (and the ideology behind it) by supporting it in general and refusing to acknowledge their blind spots when it comes to cases like this. I am actually disgusted by them.

Well it depends, doesn't it?
Either it's possible to be "born into the wrong body", or it's not.
If it is possible, then the fact that he was an masculine, dangerous paedophile is neither here nor there.
Personally, I think that you cannot change sex and self ID is dangerous nonsense.

@BarbarianMum until there is medical evidence to support the idea that it is possible to be born into the wrong body, we have to assume that it is not and that dysphoria is a more accurate description of this phenomenon.

Being born into the wrong body presupposes a 'you' that existed before your body existed. People have been arguing about whether there is a 'you' that is separate from your body since at least the time of Plato, so I think its safe to say that there is no definitive evidence to support the idea.

Stonewall's definition of transgender reinforces regressive misogynistic stereotypes about the roles and interests that men and women are allowed to have. Women have been fighting to overturn these norms of over 100 years and all the evidence shows that these are nonsense.

Talking, I too am absolutely disgusted by the women who are collaborating in the dismantling of women’s rights. The young clueless libfems, the older careerists who know what they do but don’t care, and the ones with a more sinister agenda like SG. They are the Serena Joys and Aunt Lydias of this piece and they make me sick. Traitors to their own sex.

YANBU. Reminding everyone to fill in their consultation on the Gender Recognition Act. You don’t have to write much or fill in every question. Not long to go before men like this could get the right to call themselves women whenever they want.