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To think conspiracy theorists are an infuriating mix of arrogance, stupidity and lazy thinking

401 replies

EmperorTomatoRetchup · 29/09/2018 21:37

Having thought I'll leave it, I'll leave it, I found myself arguing with a conspiracy theorist.

Christ alight these people are utterly lacking in any sort of critical thought. This tool was trotting out one of the most popular of the conspiracy theories - 911 as an inside job, Madelline McCann was murdered by her parents, moon landings were faked, Diana was bumped off by Mi5 etc. and they seemed to be impervious to any of the logical flaws in their argument, that researching a matter didn't mean watching YouTube videos made by fellow conspiricists spouting unsourced, unreferenced nonsense and claiming that non adherents were 'sheeple' buying 'the official line'.

To take the example jokingly referenced on another thread, the Paul McCartney is dead conspiracy theory, how many people coroners, doctors ambulance staff, Paul's family and friends, would have had to be bought off in order to allow him to be replaced by a lookalike who could be trained to speak, act, play musical instruments left handed and pass for one of the world's most famous men in the full glare of the media . In 50 years not a single person involved in this dastardly plan, not a single one of this vast army of people cooped into it has blown the whistle despite their being unparalleled financial rewards for doing so.

No musicologists have detected a change in composition or playing or singing style. No one asking what happened to the bloke who became fake Paul', might their family not be curious as to why their son/brother disappeared off the face of the earth in the late 60s.After going to such extraordinary lengths the Beatles so desperate to cover up this audacious act, left a series of clues in their songs as a signal to their fans.

AIBU to think that this combination of scepticism, lack of critical thought, logic, probability twinned with overwhelming arrogance is infuriating and wonder how I should deal with these fuckers in future? Especially when any attempts to point out the flaws in their arguments are taken as signs you are one of the sheeple or a Co conspirator.

OP posts:

Hanyu · 30/09/2018 11:44

eg., UK govt use of info on Iraq WMD threat) are not evidence of a conspiracy or a CT. Conspirators have to know they are acting wrongly, and agree together to do bad things

But, I remember back when the Iraq war was being debated. Many people disagreed with the Iraq war, but I don't think many people believed that the British government knew there were no WMD and had outright lied about it. I don't think many people realised that Tony Blair was lying to the British government. Some, for sure. But, Tony Blair was very well liked as a Prime Minister.

So, for me it's a conspiracy theory that turned out to be true.


Hanyu · 30/09/2018 11:45

I mean "Tony Blair was lying to the British people"


EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 30/09/2018 11:48

Every person I have meet who is into conspiracy theories are regular weed smokers


OatsBeansBarley · 30/09/2018 11:48

It was kinf of of ironic when the powers of the internet public space went after Alex Jones.


Squidgee · 30/09/2018 11:52

I think sometimes CT's come about because of snippets of information that dont add up or follow the official line that the government or police are willing to release.

There's only really one or two that I believe, I dont think Kurt Cobain committed suicide, I think he was murdered, and I think the police made such a balls up of preserving the crime scene and contaminating evidence that they covered it up.


AssignedNorthernAtBirth · 30/09/2018 11:55

Hmm I disagree, I think Blair misleading us was something a lot of people thought at the time. I will admit I was part of the anti-war movement, I attended protests, so I may have been exposed to a disproportionate number of people who thought that. But there were politicians talking about the insufficient evidence, weren't there? If a couple of Cabinet ministers have resigned over something, I think it's then become sufficiently mainstream that it's not a conspiracy theory.

However, I think my definition of conspiracy theory is a bit tighter than some people's. I don't think an official explanation or account that clearly has a lot of holes at the time and that lots of people, including some in power disbelieve, is really a conspiracy theory. Nor do I think eg Russian secret services assassinating dissidents counts as a conspiracy theory either because... that's what they do? It's not a new thing and we all know this. Whereas I guess some people think anything that's not the 'official' and acknowledged explanation of an event is a conspiracy theory.

I think when we all stop asking questions about things we should start to worry. One of the amazing things about our minds is the ability to explore situations in an alternative way.

I think it's the idea that believing the nice, easy explanations about how powerful shadowy beings control events is in any way alternative that some of us have a problem with. It's not, it's very common human behaviour. Not aimed at you or anyone in particular btw, I enjoy a good sensationalist bullshitty documentary as much as anyone!


longwayoff · 30/09/2018 11:57

Kurt Cobain now? Why??? Who or what gain from that?


Lweji · 30/09/2018 12:06

IIRC, at the time of the Second Gulf War, there wasn't evidence, just Intel. But... Saddam refused to let inspectors in, pretty much. That highly suggested he was hiding something.
I think he was convinced he had WOMD, but there had been a local conspiracy to convince him of that, when they had shit. Or he hoped they'd be too scared to attack if he convinced them he had.
But that's only a conspiracy theory, as in a possible theory. Not a theory as in I truly believe it and will find any scrap of evidence to prove it. Grin


Lweji · 30/09/2018 12:08

Kurt Cobain now? Why??? Who or what gain from that?
Obviously his widow. He was about to divorce her and there was a prenup, plus she had an affair with a high up executive in his record label. Obviously. WinkGrin


Hanyu · 30/09/2018 12:13

If most British people really believed that there were no WMD, then why would they have killed Dr. Kelly? Surely that is the whole point of the cover-up? That Dr. Kelly was testifying that there were no WMD, so he was killed off by the British government to ensure that the truth didn't come out.

I think it's when you read about things like the Tuskegee syphilis experiment or the Bons Secours home in Tuam Ireland, you do realise that those in authority have acted in a despicable way. It makes it easier to believe that other events may also have been the result of those in authority acting despicably.

I read a CT that James Dean faked his death and lived a long, happy life in anonymity. Not sure if I believe it or not. 😂


AssignedNorthernAtBirth · 30/09/2018 12:39

I don't think most British people believed we were being lied to about WMDs necessarily, just a substantial enough minority that it was fairly mainstream. And the obvious reason to kill someone to cover it up is because it's always better not to have anyone who can corroborate the lies.


BoneyBackJefferson · 30/09/2018 12:47


There is as much/little evidence of what happened to Madelline McCann on both sides of the discussion.


tillytop · 30/09/2018 12:49

That the family courts are kangaroo courts, stealing children /babies? Isn't that a conspiracy theory?


CaveMum · 30/09/2018 12:57

My own opinion on conspiracy theories is that they are the modern day equivalent of “Gods and Monsters”. In much the same way as previous cultures/civilisations came up with the idea of gods for everything they couldn’t explain (natural phenomena, etc) consipiracy theorists come up with wacky ideas to try and explain the things that they cannot fully understand/explain.


EmperorTomatoRetchup · 30/09/2018 12:58

*I'm in/from Liverpool, so this one is important to me, but people laughed at Liverpool when the theories were put forward to the Hillsborough cover up going all the way to Government.,

That's not a conspiracy theory though is it? It would be a conspiracy if the authorities colluded before hand to murder football fans for a specific secret purpose. What happened at Hillsborough was an utter cock up resulting in a tragedy and those responsible desperately attempting to lay the blame at the fans door after the event.

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Hanyu · 30/09/2018 13:02

I've never believed the CT about James Hewitt being Harry's father or that Catherine used a surrogate, but I read one about Lord Mountbatten not actually being killed by the IRA per se.

Rumour is that he was actually gay and preferred teenage boys. He was a regular visitor to Kincora boy's home in Ireland. The story goes that he had sex with a male relative of a member of the IRA and for that he was killed. If you think about it, it is rather odd that a high-ranking royal used to regularly holiday in Ireland during the Troubles. There was also a 15-year-old boy killed by the explosion. Who was that boy? Mountbatten's "lover"?


WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 30/09/2018 13:05

Savile was common knowledge inside the BBC for quite some time. Wogan mentioned in an interview once that a journalist had asked him when somebody was going to expose him and Wogan's reply was that HE/SHE was the journalist - surely it was their job. Savile may not even just a friend to Thatcher and certain royals - it was suggested that he'd been consulted for marriage guidance advice when things started to get (publicly) strained between Charles and Diana. Can somebody automatically be condemned as a loon for simply wondering why the royal family would be supposedly seeking the wise counsel for marriage problems from a creepy old never-married radio DJ?


EmperorTomatoRetchup · 30/09/2018 13:06

There is as much/little evidence of what happened to Madelline McCann on both sides of the discussion.

I was referring to the theories on the internet that freemasons/Gordon Brown/MI5 were involved or that she was a clone created in a genetic experiment level of stuff that abounds on the internet.

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Hanyu · 30/09/2018 13:07

It would be a conspiracy if the authorities colluded before hand to murder football fans for a specific secret purpose.

I think the conspiracy comes that they colluded after the event to deliberately cover up their incompetency. They did this by spreading lies and diverting the blame onto the innocent fans. The conspiracy comes that it was't just one person lying, there was collusion. Members of the police force and government acted together to deceive the public. weirdly, a judge did tell the Hillsborough families to drop their conspiracy families and behave wth dignity. Kind of ironic now.


Hanyu · 30/09/2018 13:08

to drop their conspiracy theories and behave wth dignity.


longwayoff · 30/09/2018 13:13

Thanks lweji. That information had escaped me. Sigh of despair.


AssignedNorthernAtBirth · 30/09/2018 13:14

I suppose it comes down to what we define a conspiracy theory actually is. Does a cover up of something that didn't happen deliberately count?

In respect of Hillsborough, there were dangerous grounds at the time and it didn't come as a surprise to anyone that there were risks. It didn't happen on purpose but there was recklessness. A lot of that was down to the prevailing cultural influences at the time. Football fans being viewed as scum was part of the reason it happened, so it's not a shock that it also featured in the initial and official analysis.


longwayoff · 30/09/2018 13:16

The prolonged silence of the Kelly family speaks volumes about his death.


WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 30/09/2018 13:24

I think a lot of the stubborn refusal to entertain and consider facts/evidence/theories when put forward by somebody who disagrees with you and the resulting accusations of craziness and assumption of low intelligence/MH problems/desire to make a name for yourself etc works from both sides.

One 'side' will insist that there can be no possible question of the government/establishment ever having lied in any way and that anybody claiming otherwise is obviously ridiculous and stupid.

The other 'side' will say that every little thing that the government/establishment says is automatically a lie and anybody who ever believes them is obviously ridiculous and stupid.

Then there are many who fall in the middle and will identify certain issues which have elements that they find difficult to trust but inherently that their own doubt about, say, David Kelly or Robin Cook's deaths is reasonable whereas somebody else's doubt and questioning why Building 7 just collapsed and self-destructed for no apparent reason (and according to some reports, 20 minutes after BBC news had reported its happening) is clearly absurd and therefore they are obviously ridiculous and stupid.

Not many people, from any angle of perspective, seem willing to entertain a possibility that there may actually not exist just two great big boxes labelled 'Things that I am certain are 100% true' and 'Things that are 100% certain lies and deception/delusion' into which every single event can be neatly filed.

Surely it can't be a bad thing for people to want to consider the facts as presented before just assuming nobody would ever lie to them and then to make up their own minds, without people who believe differently instantly shouting at them that they are crazy/deluded/sheeple etc?


Geraldine170 · 30/09/2018 13:26

I was referring to the theories on the internet that freemasons/Gordon Brown/MI5 were involved or that she was a clone created in a genetic experiment level of stuff that abounds on the internet.

I remember reading some crazy stuff on the internet. Theories she had died three days previous to being reporting missing and her parents had scalped her and put her hair on her sister to pass her off as Madeleine. People who post that sort of thing must be unwell.

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