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AIBU?
To think conspiracy theorists are an infuriating mix of arrogance, stupidity and lazy thinking
EmperorTomatoRetchup · 29/09/2018 21:37
Having thought I'll leave it, I'll leave it, I found myself arguing with a conspiracy theorist.
Christ alight these people are utterly lacking in any sort of critical thought. This tool was trotting out one of the most popular of the conspiracy theories - 911 as an inside job, Madelline McCann was murdered by her parents, moon landings were faked, Diana was bumped off by Mi5 etc. and they seemed to be impervious to any of the logical flaws in their argument, that researching a matter didn't mean watching YouTube videos made by fellow conspiricists spouting unsourced, unreferenced nonsense and claiming that non adherents were 'sheeple' buying 'the official line'.
To take the example jokingly referenced on another thread, the Paul McCartney is dead conspiracy theory, how many people coroners, doctors ambulance staff, Paul's family and friends, would have had to be bought off in order to allow him to be replaced by a lookalike who could be trained to speak, act, play musical instruments left handed and pass for one of the world's most famous men in the full glare of the media . In 50 years not a single person involved in this dastardly plan, not a single one of this vast army of people cooped into it has blown the whistle despite their being unparalleled financial rewards for doing so.
No musicologists have detected a change in composition or playing or singing style. No one asking what happened to the bloke who became fake Paul', might their family not be curious as to why their son/brother disappeared off the face of the earth in the late 60s.After going to such extraordinary lengths the Beatles so desperate to cover up this audacious act, left a series of clues in their songs as a signal to their fans.
AIBU to think that this combination of scepticism, lack of critical thought, logic, probability twinned with overwhelming arrogance is infuriating and wonder how I should deal with these fuckers in future? Especially when any attempts to point out the flaws in their arguments are taken as signs you are one of the sheeple or a Co conspirator.
Liadan · 29/09/2018 22:54
As regards MM, I don't believe it's a conspiracy theory that her parents might have caused her death, it's a belief that some people have and without much evidence either way, we will probably never know what happened to her. I remember reading a very interesting conspiracy theory on Titanic, that it was swapped with a sister ship to claim on the insurance policy.
EmperorTomatoRetchup · 29/09/2018 22:54
Jimmy Seville was a conspiracy theory that was laughed at... the only forum that hosted discussion on him was the David Icke forums.
It's funny how things turn out.
- There's been no credible evidence of an elite level paedophile ring operating amongst the establishment or that Saville procured children for anyone other than himself. All the evidence point to him being a predatory paedophile who acted alone. The notion that his actions were widely known isn’t really credible, BBC colleagues had heard rumours, but had no way of knowing nof they were true or not. The real scandal is that his victims weren't believed because they were powerless and female. That isn't a conspiracy, just a depressing reality for. Women's interaction in the justice system.
- David Icke didn't mention Saville on his website at all until Saville's crimes were in the public eye. His claims to have exposed him years ago are a lie.
Lifeisabeach09 · 29/09/2018 22:57
I agree with the PP that some are plausible.
9/11, for instance. I have no idea if an inside job but I do find it quite convenient that once it happened, the US govt had the support to pass the Patriot Act and invade Afghanistan and, eventually, Iraq. Items that were on the US agenda long before 9/11 happened.
Some conspiracy theories aren't so far-fetched.
RedDwarves · 29/09/2018 22:59
There's a lot to suggest that the US government had prior information about both Pearl Harbour and 9/11. Particularly with 9/11, some of that is in the official documentation. What happened from there is speculative - whether you want to believe that they simply didn't take the warnings seriously, or whether they actively allowed it to occur for whatever reason.
Most conspiracy theories are batshit insane, but you'd be equally imbecilic to think that everything the government says is factually accurate, even when it relates to something as significant as 9/11.
AmIRightOrAMeringue · 29/09/2018 23:07
It's the way they shut down arguments with statements like 'that's what they want you to believe' and accusations of being 'sheeple'. That isn't a logical argument. And when you point them to credible arguments (say proper peer reviewed medical studies and research in the anti vax arguments, instead if YouTube rants) they then claim that anyone or anything that goes against what they say is 'in on it' as well. It's impossible to argue with. And things like flat earthers or government trying to kill people through jetstreams...just what is the point of most of these things
tillytop · 29/09/2018 23:08
The UK Column news is considered to be a conspiracy programme yet I've watched a few and found it more truthful than mainstream news. They were the first ones in 2008 (not David Icke) to report the Jimmy Saville abuses and Harriet Harman wanting the age of sexual consent lowered to 14, and they were either mocked or ignored. They also predicted that schools would slowly become dictatorial which strangely enough, I've seen those very words posted in one of the school threads today.
EmperorTomatoRetchup · 29/09/2018 23:14
9/11, for instance. I have no idea if an inside job but I do find it quite convenient that once it happened, the US govt had the support to pass the Patriot Act and invade Afghanistan and, eventually, Iraq. Items that were on the US agenda long before 9/11 happened.
To say that post 9/11 the US used the attack as a pretext to adopt a hawkish foreign policy, is an interpretation based on actual events we can verify, but how and why would any government coordinate an elaborate false flag attack on their own people in this way? The planning would have been a massive administrative undertaking and yet no one raised any doubts, moral concerns or misgivings, no one leaked to a journalist and why if your intended to invade Afghanistan and Iraq would you use Saudi hijackers, especially one who had close and potentially embarrassing links to the Bush clan?
RedDwarves · 29/09/2018 23:24
One thing that does intrigue me is how Tony Blair lied about WMD to start a war, yet is still a free man?
You're giving Tony Blair too much credit here. All of this goes back to the Bush administration. The UK (and others) were ring-ins; they weren't the instigators.
bananafish81 · 29/09/2018 23:27
This is an interesting article about the Flat Earthers from the Guardian
www.theguardian.com/global/2018/may/27/is-the-earth-pancake-flat-among-the-flat-earthers-conspiracy-theories-fake-news
Two bits that stuck out
"According to psychologists, conspiracy theorists often feel they’re somehow special: whereas the majority of the population has fallen for a false rhetoric, a conspiracy theorist has risen above it. “They have this special knowledge, this special insight,” French tells me. When the community comes together, views are mutually reinforced, and the world becomes explainable, if not entirely secure."
"“And the thing about conspiracy beliefs is that they’re kind of non-falsifiable. There’s no piece of evidence that could convince someone they’re wrong, because any evidence that does suggest they’re wrong has obviously been put there by the conspirators. In the case of the Flat Earth, that would be the scientific community."
Worth a read!
ColdNeverBotheredMeAnyway · 29/09/2018 23:29
David Icke didn't mention Saville on his website at all until Saville's crimes were in the public eye. His claims to have exposed him years ago are a lie.
I remember a long running Digital Spy thread, which was rife with rumours about Jimmy Saville long before he died. They didn't name him, but the hints they gave made it obvious that it was about him. When he died and all of the allegations came out, I wasn't in the least bit shocked because I had been reading about it for years.
I've no idea about David Icke - but Digital Spy was definitely well aware of his crimes.
Itsinthebox · 29/09/2018 23:33
Ooooo I know one who believes in the Annunaki. We were out here by aliens who landed in Mesopotamia and taught us a load of stuff and then left. Then there is something about a hidden planet hiding behind Neptune.
Fairly harmless.
The flat earth lot tend to tip over into holcaust denial quite frequently. That shit isn’t funny.
Itsinthebox · 29/09/2018 23:35
Bananafish, yes I read something like that too.
Imagine you were dropped back into the dark ages and you retained all your knowledge from today. Think how special and in the know you would feel. How ignorant everyone else would seem. That’s how conspiracy people feel.
bananafish81 · 29/09/2018 23:40
This is also a great read, about the link between knowledge and power and what the rise in conspiracy theories actually says about how a society trusts information
www.independent.co.uk/voices/flat-earth-convention-birmingham-fake-news-science-facts-a8336946.html
EmperorTomatoRetchup · 29/09/2018 23:43
I've no idea about David Icke - but Digital Spy was definitely well aware of his crimes.
Digital spy were aware of non specific rumours, which turned out to be true. I'd heard rumours of him interfering with corpses in hospitals, didn't mean I knew or had any way of verifying the claims. credible evidence.
Its an important distinction If they had concrete evidence that Jimmy Saville abused X child on Y date at Z place then that is different order of things, especially if they didn't report it.
EmperorTomatoRetchup · 29/09/2018 23:53
You could say ppl against conspiracy theorists feel special or above those who are o so silly
I could, in fact I do. By believing in over two millennium of science, peer reviewed material in academic journals, conducted by real scienctists rather than the YouTube unsourced, unverified ramblings of a completely unqualified flat earther, convinced NASA faked pictures of the earth taken from space, then yes I do think I have a superior grasp of how the world works to a conspiracy theorist.
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