To think conspiracy theorists are an infuriating mix of arrogance, stupidity and lazy thinking

[EmperorTomatoRetchup]

Having thought I'll leave it, I'll leave it, I found myself arguing with a conspiracy theorist.

Christ alight these people are utterly lacking in any sort of critical thought. This tool was trotting out one of the most popular of the conspiracy theories - 911 as an inside job, Madelline McCann was murdered by her parents, moon landings were faked, Diana was bumped off by Mi5 etc. and they seemed to be impervious to any of the logical flaws in their argument, that researching a matter didn't mean watching YouTube videos made by fellow conspiricists spouting unsourced, unreferenced nonsense and claiming that non adherents were 'sheeple' buying 'the official line'.

To take the example jokingly referenced on another thread, the Paul McCartney is dead conspiracy theory, how many people coroners, doctors ambulance staff, Paul's family and friends, would have had to be bought off in order to allow him to be replaced by a lookalike who could be trained to speak, act, play musical instruments left handed and pass for one of the world's most famous men in the full glare of the media . In 50 years not a single person involved in this dastardly plan, not a single one of this vast army of people cooped into it has blown the whistle despite their being unparalleled financial rewards for doing so.

No musicologists have detected a change in composition or playing or singing style. No one asking what happened to the bloke who became fake Paul', might their family not be curious as to why their son/brother disappeared off the face of the earth in the late 60s.After going to such extraordinary lengths the Beatles so desperate to cover up this audacious act, left a series of clues in their songs as a signal to their fans.

AIBU to think that this combination of scepticism, lack of critical thought, logic, probability twinned with overwhelming arrogance is infuriating and wonder how I should deal with these fuckers in future? Especially when any attempts to point out the flaws in their arguments are taken as signs you are one of the sheeple or a Co conspirator.

[Lweji]

I think conspiracy theories overestimate how clever conspirators are.

Clearly, 9/11 was a conspiracy. Why it's more likely to be by the US government/or the Illuminati type group instead of Al Qaeda (perhaps with willing or unwilling help from well placed people), I really don't know.
It's not as if Bin Laden died protesting his innocence.

[Lweji]

What terrorism tends to show is that we are all vulnerable to simple actions by a small group of people. That is pretty upsetting.

[Brahumbug]

A lot of flat earth's are religious fundamentalists, the world in the bible is flat with a dome over the top, so they are at least true to their holy book

[user1457017537]

EmperorTomatoRetchup you say there is no evidence of a high-level peadophile network or conspiracy. However, every major police investigation into historic child abuse has been shut down or quietly wound up. Not from lack of evidence, hundreds of people have come forward to say that they were abused in care, etc. The problem is that they were children who had no idea where they were when the abuse took place, or vague recollections and areas have changed. They have in some cases become mentally unwell, with addiction issues, and do not make good witnesses when up against defence barristers. This doesn’t mean high level abuse didn’t happen, it did. Sidney Cooke has been linked to Dolphin Square

[EmperorTomatoRetchup]

However, every major police investigation into historic child abuse has been shut down or quietly wound up. Not from lack of evidence, hundreds of people have come forward to say that they were abused in care, etc.

There's currently at least four ongoing, which ones are you talking about?

hey have in some cases become mentally unwell, with addiction issues, and do not make good witnesses when up against defence barristers. This doesn’t mean high level abuse didn’t happen

I am not saying that abuse by prominent figures didn't and doesn't happen, of course it did and does. But the idea that huge numbers of them operated in a vast subterranean network with Saville as the key figure/Coordinator isn't supported by any evidence.

[Onlyhappywhenitrains1]

After reading this thread I felt like some YouTube education.

Apparently there is a super race inside earth. They are the ones that send the UFOs out, not Aliens. You can get to inner earth through big wholes in the poles, which are of course hidden in satalite pictures. There are also tunnels in Tibet and Egypt.

The proof is, no one is allowed to fly over the poles!

[NameChanger22]

But the idea that huge numbers of them operated in a vast subterranean network with Saville as the key figure/Coordinator isn't supported by any evidence.

I don't think the network is vast but I do think there is a network. There's a TV interview with Saville where he says he smuggled girls into the Buckingham Palace in the boot of his car. He was telling the world what he was doing, but nobody was listening, and still nobody is listening because they don't want to believe it.

People will always believe what they want to believe, it doesn't matter if it's the truth or not.

[user1457017537]

What about the Westminster Peadophile dossier that is classified.

[user1497863568]

User These things aren't even a secret. They've been widely discussed for years and years. Bunch of criminals endorsed by the biggest institutions :(

[user1497863568]

www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.socialworkhelper.com/2015/02/10/westminster-child-abuse-inquiry-blood-hands/%3famp

[Gersemi]

As I understand it, there's nothing whatsoever stopping people flying over the poles, the point is that no-one bothers because they're not on a direct route to anywhere. I also read somewhere that at one point it was problematic for navigation systems because plane compasses would change from a due north heading to due south which could affect autopilots. However, that hasn't been a problem for a long time.

[Brahumbug]

1968, the first men go to the moon. 2018 'the world is flat', so much for progress!

[RedToothBrush]

A lot of conspiracy theories come from people who have been let down politically in terms of representation or have a particular problem that politicians have been blind to.

Then someone comes along and offers an explanation or representation and people latch on it it because it matches an aspect of their reality of experience.

Conspiracy theories which have wide appeal always have two key things: an element of believability to at least a certain group who have a particular experience and a vacuum of anyone else offering an adequate alternative explanation in a way which connects with that particular group.

It's a matter of communication skills rather than ignorance.

[Valanice1989]

Why did my post about the McCanns get deleted? I pointed out a major hole in their story. That's a fact, not speculation. Are we actually not allowed to post facts now?

[MaisyPops]

Valanice1989
I didn't see your post about the family so can't comment on that, but pretty much the way MN works with regards to them is you can say whatever you like as long as it is praise for them or parroting their story. If you do anything else then it goes poof. That means people being horrible are (rightly) deleted but people asking questions about the case which may potentially lead to anything other than their account being affirmed also get deleted, which in my opinion does nothing to change some of the views held about the couple.

[user1497863568]

I was thinking a lot about this yesterday. Well, we all drive cars. Everythjng we do, buy etc all revolves around oil. We need resource wars to get it. Yes, all past abuses are related to same resource wars and will be in future too I guess. There has been a program of institutional abuse going on for hundreds of years... usually against the poor and vulnerable. Sticking our heads in the sand and crying 'it's all a conspiracy' and 'f.$k' etc isn't going to change those who engage in it and it isn't particularly enlightening to those on the receiving end.

[user1457017537]

ValaNice1989 I think it is probably been deleted because they have a very strong legal team and use them so it tends to shut discussion down

[trumptrump]

@EmperorTomatoRetchup

I live close to where Saville lived. It is well known locally that he did far worse things than were ever reported. But actually, I hope I am wrong.

Did you read the BBC's report on Saville? A total cover up.

[TheMythicalChicken]

I have flown over the North Pole! Many people have.

[EmperorTomatoRetchup]

I live close to where Saville lived. It is well known locally that he did far worse things than were ever reported. But actually, I hope I am wrong.

So if you knew about these things, why didn't you call the police? But you say you hope they aren't true. So how can you known something and wonder if it is true or not? The two statements contradict one another.

Did you read the BBC's report on Saville? A total cover up.

Dame Janet Smith's report, yes I have. In what respect do you think it was a cover up?

[ChicagoLil]

So is all the money going on lawyers bills?

[user1457017537]

Jimmy Saville was employed by the BBC for over 50 years. Many victims complained to management but were ignored. The Sex Pistols made a complaint after appearing on Top of the Pops. There is footage of JS feeling up a young girl on camera which was broadcast. I think we can safely say he was ptotected by people higher up.

The first victim of the Yorkshire Ripper was found on the park near JS’s flat. JS knew Peter Sutcliffe from when he ran nightclubs.

[TomPinch]

Arrrgh at the spellings "peadophile" and "pedophile"! It's a conspiracy! A conspiracy I say!

Spelling pedantry aside, there must be examples of conspiracy theories that turned out to be true.

Not where something has simply been covered up, e.g. Bloody Sunday, the suppression of the Mau Mau or the cause of Hillsborough, but something more than that.

I read years ago (in a reputable newspaper) that Wallis Simpson was boffing a used car salesman while stepping out with Edward VIII and that M15 hid this from the King because the King was passing classified information to the Germans and they wanted him to abdicate. I don't know if it ever was a theory before the documents proving it got declassified.

[TomPinch]

Re Savile. There is a biography called In Plain Sight based on interviews with him before his death but published after. It does contain a harrowing account of a child who was taken by Savile to London as companion to other children who were taking part in some kind of "party" with adults.

It's naïve to conclude that we even know the half of what he did, and reasonable to assume that he was in touch with other paedophiles.

[longwayoff]

Chesterfield thanks. Never heard that one before, will add to list.