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To think conspiracy theorists are an infuriating mix of arrogance, stupidity and lazy thinking

401 replies

EmperorTomatoRetchup · 29/09/2018 21:37

Having thought I'll leave it, I'll leave it, I found myself arguing with a conspiracy theorist.

Christ alight these people are utterly lacking in any sort of critical thought. This tool was trotting out one of the most popular of the conspiracy theories - 911 as an inside job, Madelline McCann was murdered by her parents, moon landings were faked, Diana was bumped off by Mi5 etc. and they seemed to be impervious to any of the logical flaws in their argument, that researching a matter didn't mean watching YouTube videos made by fellow conspiricists spouting unsourced, unreferenced nonsense and claiming that non adherents were 'sheeple' buying 'the official line'.

To take the example jokingly referenced on another thread, the Paul McCartney is dead conspiracy theory, how many people coroners, doctors ambulance staff, Paul's family and friends, would have had to be bought off in order to allow him to be replaced by a lookalike who could be trained to speak, act, play musical instruments left handed and pass for one of the world's most famous men in the full glare of the media . In 50 years not a single person involved in this dastardly plan, not a single one of this vast army of people cooped into it has blown the whistle despite their being unparalleled financial rewards for doing so.

No musicologists have detected a change in composition or playing or singing style. No one asking what happened to the bloke who became fake Paul', might their family not be curious as to why their son/brother disappeared off the face of the earth in the late 60s.After going to such extraordinary lengths the Beatles so desperate to cover up this audacious act, left a series of clues in their songs as a signal to their fans.

AIBU to think that this combination of scepticism, lack of critical thought, logic, probability twinned with overwhelming arrogance is infuriating and wonder how I should deal with these fuckers in future? Especially when any attempts to point out the flaws in their arguments are taken as signs you are one of the sheeple or a Co conspirator.

OP posts:

longwayoff · 30/09/2018 10:11

Completely agree most conspiracy theories are guff but also believe Dr Kelly was murdered. It would take bucketloads of real incontrovertible evidence to convince me otherwise. Also believe most of the 'suicides' and 'accidents' that have happened in this country involving Russian 'businessman' and their associates are also murders, whether by Russian agents or Russian gangsters.


longwayoff · 30/09/2018 10:13

Ps also disbelieve that a MI5 staff member died by locking himself inside suitcase.


Birdsgottafly · 30/09/2018 10:22

Some of what you mentioned are alternative theories, not just stupid conspiracy theories.

Any talk about Jimmy Saville or Cyril Smith was branded as 'madness'.

Likewise the stuff said about what was happening to children/babies in the Catholic Orphanages, who just disappeared.

In the US when Government officials and Journalists doubted that the incidents that sparked the Vietnam war, in the Gulf of Tokin, they were branded as wacky conspirator theorists.

I'm in/from Liverpool, so this one is important to me, but people laughed at Liverpool when the theories were put forward to the Hillsborough cover up going all the way to Government.

I know people who think that the Patriarchy is a conspirator theory.

Gone are the days when we just believe what we are fed and be grateful.


Birdsgottafly · 30/09/2018 10:24

That should have said, "when they said that the the incident in the Gulf of Tolkin didn't happen".


Geraldine170 · 30/09/2018 10:24

I don’t believe McCann conspiracy theories. But as a parent of twins I find it very hard to stomach them and don’t know any twin parents who don’t feel the same. If you know how different it is for an adult to control twin toddlers then you would know why leaving twins in an apartment with a three year old with unlocked doors and swimming pools and roads nearby is an awful, awful idea. I don’t even nip across to the shop when mine are asleep, I had to nip out of their sight for a moment in a shop the other day and I ran! So to hear them on the radio saying they are model parents is difficult. I’m convinced she went out to look for them and either got in an accident or was taken from the street.

9/11 - don’t the conspiracies at all, been well debunked

Moon landings- Kennedy had said they would be on the moon by the end of the 60s and it’s propaganda value when the USSR was stealing a march on them in terms of space travel was huge - they couldn’t allow Capitalism to be seen to fall technologically behind Communism when they argued Communism killed innovation. There are some genuinely troubling questions about the footage.

I do believe Diana was killed too. It was very like a plot that had been planned to kill Slobodan Milosevic. I don’t think it had anything to do with the Royal Family or an engagement to Dodi or a pregnancy. I think she was probably killed off by the security services because she was getting involved with land mines and interfering with arms sales. She said to the press the day before she died that ‘You won’t believe what I’m going to do next’. I think she was going to expand her campaign against arms and expose people who made money off it. They wouldn’t have killed her just for embarrassing the royal family. Wallis and Edward were never targeted..


OkMaybeNot · 30/09/2018 10:28

ome of what you describe in your OP aren't conspiracy theories, they're alternative theories.

Evidence on both sides.

Open to interpretation.


Geraldine170 · 30/09/2018 10:32

Isn’t it pretty much accepted now that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn’t have killed JFK alone? He was a patsy.


OkMaybeNot · 30/09/2018 10:35

Just realised I inadvertantly posted the same alternative theory phrase as birdsgottafly, I'm not quoting you I promise Grin

Coming to a different conclusion based on sometimes absurd 'evidence' doesn't make you a conspiracy theorist. 9/11 and the accepted version of events doesn't make sense in a lot of ways. With something so massive and so important, people will wonder. That doesn't make them stupid.


Lweji · 30/09/2018 10:38

I agree with you OP, although there is a difference between conspiracy theories and healthy scepticism/ cynicism.


MaisyPops · 30/09/2018 10:39

Evidence on both sides or the evidence for the official view doesn't quite add up or I still think there's a case to answer = fairly reasonable and healthy scepticism

Quite clearly 9/11 was an inside job where George Bush personally trained secret agents and planted them in terror cells and the US sacrificed thousands to go to war because.. well... the man loves oil... and also clearly the queen killed Diana and the McCanns are part of some sect that worships aliens whilst drinking pineapple juice every 5th Wednesday etc = silly conspiracy theories usually followed by people who believe they are somehow more enlightened than the rest of the world. You can't discuss with them or debate becausr any challenge to their alternative world view is explained away as 'but you've clearly been brainwashed'.


Lweji · 30/09/2018 10:40

It's believing conspiracy theories as gospel that it's a problem.


AssignedNorthernAtBirth · 30/09/2018 10:43

It sort of depends what exactly people wonder about wrt to 9/11 whether they're stupid or not.

If they think it was all orchestrated by the Israelis and somehow everyone involved has managed to be silenced for 17 years, that's stupid. If they wonder whether it might've been clear there was a risk in not adequately monitoring particular groups but someone thought the budget was better spent elsewhere/the person responsible fucked up and this has been kept quiet to avoid scandal, less so, since this is more realistic.


OkMaybeNot · 30/09/2018 10:44

Agreed. Being unmovable in your belief for most things usually becomes a problem at some point, that goes for the official version of events too.

But the queen is a lizard.


KennDodd · 30/09/2018 10:48

I have a friend who believes the earth is flat, according to her the windows on planes are all wide angle to give the illusion of curve. She has said she will give anyone who can prove the earth is round £1,000 of her own money.


longwayoff · 30/09/2018 10:49

By the way. To anyone who doesn't know. Dan Brown is not a historian. He writes fiction. Yes, made up stuff.


Fairylea · 30/09/2018 10:51

I love a good conspiracy theory!

I can spend hours watching nonsense on You tube and reading up about stuff.

I think when we all stop asking questions about things we should start to worry. One of the amazing things about our minds is the ability to explore situations in an alternative way.


NotDavidTennant · 30/09/2018 10:53

I can't understand why anyone would blindly believe anything the government tells them.

If you don't agree with conspiracy theories it doesn't follow that you blindly believe anything the government tells you.


BishopBrennansArse · 30/09/2018 10:53

There were links between Savile and a former prime minister. If anything truth is still being withheld to the extent of that ring.

McCartney, 9/11, Sandy Hook, moon landings, Diana conspiracies all absolute bollocks, though.


Geraldine170 · 30/09/2018 10:58

Saville used to spend Christmas with Thatcher and was close friends with Diana and Charles.


Birdsgottafly · 30/09/2018 11:07

""Conspiracies happen all the time - once two or more people conspire to lie about certain events, or cover up the truth, then you have a conspiracy.""

And that can come from any side, The Government, Mafia (in/Friends in high places), Police, Health professionals etc.

In every Serial Hospital Death scandal, or in the case of Shipman. It always turns out that people were wanting it investigated, but were being told to shut up and branded as conspirators.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Marilyn Monroe. who was most definitely murdered.


Hanyu · 30/09/2018 11:11

There were links between Savile and a former prime minister. If anything truth is still being withheld to the extent of that ring.

I agree with this. The independent inquiry they set up has gotten nowhere really.

I read on a gossip site that a lot of the immigrant children in the US taken from their parents have been trafficked. I'm interested to see if there is any truth to that. There are an awful lot of children missing Sad


Hanyu · 30/09/2018 11:13

By the way, is that considered a conspiracy theory? There is a theory that immigrant children were removed from there families as part of a sex trafficking ring sanctioned by the government. There is no evidence to support this yet. So, I think it can be classified as a conspiracy theory, right?


Geraldine170 · 30/09/2018 11:17

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Marilyn Monroe. who was most definitely murdered.

I’m not sure that’s right. She phoned Peter Lawford drunk or drugged and told him she wanted to say goodbye to him without making any complaint about someone else involved or asking for help. She regularly took overdoses and had to be rescued. This time it was too late to rescue her that help came.


MedSchoolRat · 30/09/2018 11:36

Any 2 people together planning bad things is a conspiracy, so conspiracy is fairly common. Not every conspiracy amounts to a CT, though.

A formal definition of a CT is there has to be powerful people that conspire & benefit from the hidden bad actions (while ordinary people suffer). You don't hear CTs about the ordinary people making sneaky orchestrated harm on the elite (that's called folk tales... or Brexit or President Trump ).

Hyperbole, Incompetence, political bias &/or exaggeration (eg., UK govt use of info on Iraq WMD threat) are not evidence of a conspiracy or a CT. Conspirators have to know they are acting wrongly, and agree together to do bad things.

So, conspiracies are not proof we should believe in conspiracy theories. eg., Rotherham abuse of girls was a large conspiracy, Scripal poisonings was part of well-planned conspiracy: but these were not CTs... unless you're Russian & don't want to believe it happened. Or you want someone extra to blame so want to think SS in Rotherham didn't care. CTs are always much more about opinions of what you think the players are capable of, rather than any evidence presented. The reward is creating a target for all the uncomfortable emotions.


Lweji · 30/09/2018 11:43

You don't hear CTs about the ordinary people making sneaky orchestrated harm on the elite (that's called folk tales... or Brexit or President Trump ).

That's because those were not orchestrated by ordinary people.
Ordinary people were just being the usual sheep that we are.

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