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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there should be an approval process to allow parents to HE?

407 replies

abacucat · 29/09/2018 13:54

Children's education matters, it is incredibly important and affects the rest of their life. I think it is fine for parents to Home Educate, but I think there should be an approval process before parents can HE. This will check the parents are actually capable of doing this.

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 30/09/2018 16:32

Sigh, Geraldine Khyra Ishaq wasn't home educated. She didn't go to school, but that didn't make her home educated!

Could you explain the difference? I mean, the law which allows children to be educated other than at school - ie not to attend school - is the one that allows home education.

Are you simply making the distinction between a child who is not being 'educated' as being 'not at school' rather than 'home educated'? Or are you saying there is a technical difference - in paperwork, in process - between a child who is 'home educated' and one whose parents 'don't send them to school'?

IStandWithPosie · 30/09/2018 16:37

Posie Just from various things you have said. Obviously may be wrong.

I don’t think I’ve said anything identifiable. Where are you, roughly?

HellenaHandbasket · 30/09/2018 16:39

I have the interesting perspective of one with child home educated and one in school. The one in school was home educated until 8 and then joined in yr 4. Interestingly so far she is on a par with the rest of the class, and exceeding age expectation in a few elements. Her work ethic is better too according to her teacher...but we have put that down to the fact that it is her choice to be there.

IStandWithPosie · 30/09/2018 16:39

I do think if there are big concerns over education they should be compelled to go to school.

They can be. The law already provides for this.

Cyclingpast · 30/09/2018 16:40

Cantkeepaway yes there is a technical difference in this case. When you remove a child from school you have to de-register them. You have to give the school a de-registration letter. This never happened in Khyra's case. She simply stopped going to school. Therefore she came under the "children missing in education" umbrella. This is a completely different thing.

PegLegAntoine · 30/09/2018 16:41

Up front approval means you can't pull your child out of school for e.g. bullying without being registered first. It would mean quite possibly a set of MC hoops to jump through.

What do you mean by MC hoops?

I agree that registration is better than approval. I am horrified when I consider what might have happened to my DD had we not pulled her out when we did, so if we’d had to wait for a licence or something, how much more damage would have been done? It’s taken long enough as it is to undo it.

I am very happy with the idea of registration. In fact recently we moved and I could have fallen off the radar really, they have my email as well as the old address/landline (the latter two having changed now due to move) but I thought rather than waiting for a possible email at some point (they are very behind on visits here due to staffing issues) I would preempt that and basically asked to arrange a visit.

I’m not so keen on the idea of being able to send a report TBH, how easy would it be to tell a bunch of lies? I don’t know anyone who would - The HE families I know who do what some people consider to be “too little” are very happy with their method so would likely be upfront about it - but if someone WAS abusing their child or neglecting their education completely, it would take no effort at all to fabricate some fake work to scrape through any threshold of “enough”

Cyclingpast · 30/09/2018 16:46

As to how to differentiate between a child who is "just not sent to school" and a child who is lawfully home educated Section 7 of the Education Act 1996 states that:

The parent of every child of compulsory school age shall cause him to receive efficient full-time education suitable—
(1) to his age, ability and aptitude, and
(2) to any special educational needs he may have,
either by regular attendance at school or otherwise

As you can see it's the parents' responsibility to make sure their child receives an education by going to school or "otherwise" (home ed). So if you don't comply with the above you are not lawfully home educating.

IStandWithPosie · 30/09/2018 16:47

There have been quite a few cases of children in HE dying because nobody checks on their welfare.

And no children who went to school have died due to neglect or abuse?

A girl in Swansea who was horrendously physically and sexually abused and raped by parents throughout her childhood

There are children being raped in school. In the actual school.

I really can’t understand why HEs are so opposed to welfare checks. Children are dying because their abuse is being hidden, to deny them protection because some HEs object to state involvement is downright selfishness in my opinion.

Because the checks and checkers aren’t equipped to properly assess HEing. There is a lack of understanding of how HE happens and works for different children. Tbh most of them don’t even understand how children learn even in school which is why so many children are left floundering. Education in the U.K. needs a massive overhaul. Won’t happen though.

HellenaHandbasket · 30/09/2018 16:48

"quite a few"? The odd very public case, I would argue.

zzzzz · 30/09/2018 16:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cantkeepawayforever · 30/09/2018 17:38

Cycling,

But what you can create by that definition is the following conversation::

'Some HE children aren't receiving an education'

'So they're not being home educated, as to be home educated they must be receiving an efficient full time education'

'But the parents have deregistered them from school (or never sent them to school - which is how some children slip completely under the radar) so they are home educating'

' But they receive no education so they are not home educating'

' How do you know they receive no education?'

'I don't know, nobody is allowed to check'

If the HE community says, as you do, that a child not being educated at home is not being home educated, but the process of deregistering or never registering creates a (larger) group of children who meet the formal 'process' definition of HE, then what should we be doing, as a society, about those children who do not receive an education but are deregistered or not registered? Especially because at the moment nobody has the legal right to demand access to an HE child to check....

zzzzz · 30/09/2018 17:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cyclingpast · 30/09/2018 17:57

cantkeep in your fictional conversation one of the people seem to know that a child isn't receiving a lawful education so they can report the parents to the local authority. If the local authority suspect that a child isn't being lawfully educated they can intervene.

cantkeepawayforever · 30/09/2018 18:07

So your suggestion to those in this thread who suggest they know families where HE = no education is that their first action should be to report all such families to the LA?

Are you sure that this is better for the HE community than a registration scheme for all children?

zzzzz · 30/09/2018 18:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

abacucat · 30/09/2018 18:16

You need qualifications plus an education. I got into my line of work at a time when you did not need qualifications for it. Now qualifications are essential. DP is the same.

OP posts:
abacucat · 30/09/2018 18:21

zzzz And you know that people have already posted, one parent and one who was HE as a child, who both have said that in their experience of HE groups, most HE do not report neglect.

But I am also concerned about educational neglect, and that includes socialisation. I have talked to too many adults who were HE as children, some of whom say their parents brag about how well they HE, who say their HE was a disaster.

I have certainly never understood those HE who seem to think leaving a child with a textbook to work through on their own, is superior to actually being taught.

I am not anti HE at all. I am anti HE not being regulated at all.

OP posts:
zzzzz · 30/09/2018 18:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zzzzz · 30/09/2018 18:28

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corythatwas · 30/09/2018 18:32

be able to plan how their child will learn, have an understanding of how to support their child

Are we going to impose the same approval process on schools? Because if so, the school who failed to educate my friend's autistic ds and the one who left my disabled dd unsupported and traumatised would have failed dismally.

corythatwas · 30/09/2018 18:36

Most of the people I know who have chosen to HE have done so precisely because it has become painfully clear that their child is not supported at school, that the people in charge of their education have no plan as to how they are going to learn, because learning simply isn't happening.

I chose not to HE because dd and I both felt that it would be better for her, given her individual circumstances, to try to fight for support at school. But it was an uphill struggle then and it won't have become less so with the recent economic constraints.

DN4GeekinDerby · 30/09/2018 18:44

If you are currently concerned about the education of a child, then their family should be reported to the LA. If you are currently concerned about their wellbeing, it should be reported to SS.

I'm not against registration - I think it would make sense for the primary, secondary, and in-year transfer to have home education options and for parents to do so at the appropriate times (this would also save the issue of kids getting places they aren't going use and the whole needing to tell multiple people about that). In the most recent consultation on home education, I wrote on this and the needs for better systems to put forth work and public connection for home educated students (as I've been told by my LA that my reports and my children's portfolios pretty much sit in a folder in case someone asks to cover the LA's and our butts, this could be made easier and electronic). We don't have that currently, so the first port of call is the LA if someone has a concern and they can intervene. HE parents aren't immune anymore than any other parent. The way many home educators are registered is because someone (quite often a medical professional) contacts the LA about a child not in school.

I think it is important to remember that there is not one home educating community just as there is not one school educating community or one reason why children are missing education. It shouldn't be assumed that a child registered at a school but not going is home education without any other evidence. I was registered at a school and went missing because my mother kicked me out and I was couch hopping and then later because of depression + lack of parental supervision meant I struggled to get out of bed - it would have been pretty bad for me if people just assumed I was being educated at home rather than missing from education.

The law in the UK states that parents are responsible for ensuring a child receives an education that meets their age, ability, aptitude, and takes into account any special needs whether in school or otherwise. There have been legal cases which have brought requirements such as for a child to be able to be a member of their community (though not necessarily the wider world) though I've yet to see a child's interests required to be included. Making the state required to approve (rather than a legal option to be withdrawn on evidence much like with other parenting options) doesn't really fit with the law and would come across antagonistically to a lot of home education communities as seen by the backlash each time this is suggested in any official capacity. Most home educators in the UK are people who have pulled their kids out rather than ideological, many after long battles with schools and the local authority. All children matter, but we have to work with the systems we have and recognize the communities affected, but try to shoehorn into some ideal without considering them.

There is also the issue - in the age of austerity - of placing further burdens on health care by pushing for annual visits with a pediatrician or GP, it would make more sense for that to be a school nurse which home educated kids can already access and are eligible for the same screenings and things as school educated students. Also, many medical professionals know nothing about home education and the law. I'm registered and on a very good speaking relationship with my local LA and SS partially because of how many medical professionals have tried to report me purely based on me home educating. I literally take pictures of my kids before every appointment because of how many false reports against us we've had in the last ten or so years when, after being told that not being educated in school is not a SS concern, they make things up and SS has to record them. I've had to switch providers because they wouldn't let it go even though being home educated has nothing to do with their teeth or other medical needs. I could go on but there is no good reason I see to either put this burden on GP or pediatricians or to assume they would want to be part of this system.

I've home educated for over ten years. I'm quite structured compared to most others I know and I know plenty of adults who were also home educated. Some have the complaints made in this thread and some don't and either feel their social and education needs were well met or feel their social issues are more connected to autism/medical issues/many of the reasons kids are pulled out, some it was a horrible experience. There are pros and cons much as there is to the local school where only 10% of young people will get the standard pass for English and Maths GCSEs and ever lower amounts being spent on students. I definitely think we need a better system like registration or GCSE access (while I understand the call for HE kids to take SATs - even though other parents can withdraw their kids from them - HE parents have to pay for all testing including any GCSE tests and making any test required while we still have to pay for that is basically saying only people wealthy enough to take those tests can home educate) but I think people need to stop placing an idealized school education alongside home education. That's not the option many of us have, many of us are just making the most for our kids of a bad situation that neither of us can control and the LA apparently approves of because it's enabling it to happen.

My parents spent a lot of my childhood bragging about me and my extracurriculars including far too many hours in dance at too young an age which gave me injuries that I will live with for the rest of my life. Their choice means I will never be without pain or have full movement of my body again. I don't think parents need to be approved to put their kids into extracurriculars, I think we can come up with better than that.

cantkeepawayforever · 30/09/2018 18:49

zzz. No, I didn't say neglected, nor did cycling. She was saying that anyone who was not providing the child's legal entitlement to education should be reported to the LA - which is a much stronger position than anyone on here has suggested, when we have considered registration or even approval. She has suggested that everyone, always, goes straight for enforcement.

zzzzz · 30/09/2018 18:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cantkeepawayforever · 30/09/2018 19:04

OK, so any HE family who is not clearly providing a full-time education appropriate to the child's interests and aptitudes should be reported to the LA and SS for neglect?

That's quite a bold statement. What would you consider that that education should look like to meet that requirement? Is radical unschooling OK? Wholly autonomous HE? The type of education where parents are 'waiting for a child to be ready' in order to teach them anything? The type of HE where a parent who finds it difficult to get a child to school on time and therefore hopes that an hour or so's work might be done at some point in the day? A Traveller girl being asked to keep things clean, look after the group's children and and get ready for an early marriage?

As an HE parent I encountered all of those. Do they meet the legal bar for 'full time education appropriate to the child's interests and aptitudes'?