To think there should be an approval process to allow parents to HE?

[abacucat]

Children's education matters, it is incredibly important and affects the rest of their life. I think it is fine for parents to Home Educate, but I think there should be an approval process before parents can HE. This will check the parents are actually capable of doing this.

maisie it wasn't in reference to your comment

“Children need to spend considerable time with their peers.”

You know that peers doesn’t just mean a group of people the same age as you? Many children aren’t mixing with their peers in a classroom setting.

Also, define ‘considerable time’. Sitting in the same room as someone for a few hours isn’t exactly achieving much in the way of socialising is it?

Ihopeyourcakeisshit
Phew!
I was a bit if you'd thought that's what I meant.

abacucat it is also very very rare in home ed unless considerable SEN is involved.

Most home educated children do really well. But, yes, it is reasonable to assume that some (a very very small minority) are being abused and not educated to a good enough standard. But registration and inspection isn't going to stop this from happening.
Children are abused in all sorts of environments and we can't stop them all from existing (scout groups, playgrounds, shop toilets etc etc).

With regards to "socialisation with peers" at school I feel this is quite over rated! Count the minutes a day that your schooled child is having valuable interaction with other children and you will find that it probably isn't as much as you think. Most home educated children go to home ed groups and traditional after school activities several times a week. They also spend more time (than schooled children) talking to adults and children younger and older than themselves. That, in my opinion, is a better way to develop their communication and socialisation skills, and it also reflects "real" life to a higher degree than the type of socialisation that children take part in at school.

Some of this socialisation at school can also cause substantial harm to the children too, especially if it comes with school refusal and bullying.

Racecardriver the purpose of SATS is to make sure that the school is teaching the children adequately. The purpose isn't to make sure the children are making adequate progress.

“They also spend more time (than schooled children) talking to adults and children younger and older than themselves. That, in my opinion, is a better way to develop their communication and socialisation skills, and it also reflects "real" life to a higher degree than the type of socialisation that children take part in at school.”

Yes to this!

Other thing that needs to be dealt with by the education system is also inadequate teachers. It is nigh on impossible to get rid of them and very few are struck off even when they do extreme things.

I think that all HE children must be registered same as children in school and must sit the same standardised tests as kids in schools to measure progress.

Independent school children don’t have to take national standardised tests so it would be a bit unfair to extend them to homeschoolers only.

Basic literacy and maths seems fine to me, the entire gamut of the stats with whatever fashionable crap each successive government shoehorns into them though, no thanks.

Argh! On my phone and it seemed to post an unfinished unchecked version when I was trying to preview. Sorry for typos. I’m shocking at typing my phone!

I know for some councils you can name one particular online school on your EHCP but can't remember the sites name.

Cycling,

Are there good stats on the education outcomes for HE children? It would be really useful, in these discussions, to get beyond the 'many do really well' (or on the other hand 'loads are being failed') to some actual numbers.

Are there any? I'm thinking about % going on to tertiary education, % employed post, say, 21, % taking some kind of 'end of education' qualification of whatever type - or do the small numbers and variability of path chosen mean that it is simply impossible to collect such stats and thus any discussion HAS to rely on anecdote?

Are there good stats on the education outcomes for HE children?

No, it would be a genuine advantage of registration that such data can be collected.

All studies done on HE have shown it pretty favourably but obviously people who get involved in such studies are self selected. People who just let their kids play minecraft all day and have illiterate children they’re sure will want to learn to read soon (even though they’re already 14) probably wouldn’t want to showcase themselves in a study.

cantkeepaway The only large(ish) study I know of in this country is from 2002 . Home Education wasn't as popular then as it is now. It's here: www.leeds.ac.uk/educol/documents/00002197.htm

Some information about the USA here:

www.parentingscience.com/homeschooling-outcomes.html

(although I am sure you'll be able to find more as many American states test home educated children)

For registration to make testing of home educated children in this country comparable to schooled children there would also have to be a change education law. At the moment children in independent schools and home educated children don't have to follow the National Curriculum. So testing would be meaningless.

independent schools and home educated children don't have to follow the National Curriculum. So testing would be meaningless.

but most schools broadly do as their end goal usually is entry into higher education, which is heck of a lot easier with standard gcse and a-levels

No there is no decent research in the UK. In the US research has found that HE kids do better in English, and worse in maths and science.

Talk to adults who were HE as kids who only socialised with kids their own age a few times a week. All said it affected their social skills massively. You learn social skills as a child partly by interacting with kids at the same developmental stage as yourself. Adults, older and younger kids, treat another kid differently from a child their own age. And a lack of understanding of this key point and how power differentials matter, make me doubt your understanding of socialisation.

No children in independent schools do not have to follow national curriculum. But I would have thought rightly that any adult would look askew if a 12 year old child in an independent school was playing minesweeper every day and that was defended by the school as their education.

You really don’t need to follow the national curriculum pre ks4 in order to do GCSEs and alevels. Private schools can (and often do) choose to do the IB and Cambridge pre-U instead of a levels too.

Posie Just from various things you have said. Obviously may be wrong.

Social skills is a term that covers a wide range of things. What specific skills do you mean specifically?

There have been quite a few cases of children in HE dying because nobody checks on their welfare. They young lads in Leeds and Wales who were both neglected and died of malnutrition. A girl in Swansea who was horrendously physically and sexually abused and raped by parents throughout her childhood. Khyra Ishaq was also badly abused and starved to death. Traveller girls are regularly taken out of school because it’s seen as not worth giving them an education. They are put to work cleaning and cooking from the start of puberty.

I really can’t understand why HEs are so opposed to welfare checks. Children are dying because their abuse is being hidden, to deny them protection because some HEs object to state involvement is downright selfishness in my opinion.

I do think if there are big concerns over education they should be compelled to go to school. It’s insane parents of schoolchildren can be prosecuted or fined over non-attendance, but some people deny their child even the most basic education and face no sanctions.

I do know someone who is doing this. Her child is 7, totally illiterate, can’t recognise a single letter or write his name. He can only count to three. There are no books in his home, no stimulation. He has an iPad but there is nothing educational on it, he sits playing fortnite on it all day. He’s got no social skills and struggles to play and cooperate with other children. I could understand this if he was being offered stimulation and refusing, but never being offered, never given a chance - that’s a terrible thing to do to your child. He begs to go to school too.

Sigh, Geraldine Khyra Ishaq wasn't home educated. She didn't go to school, but that didn't make her home educated!

I am not sure if there are any cases of "hidden" abused home educated children in this country. I could be wrong. But in most cases the children were already known to the authorities.

If you think a child is being abused please do report to SS. If you think a child is not being educated please do report to your LA.

He can only count to three

Considering most kids can count higher many years before they start school doesn’t it seem likely there’s a lot more going on than homeschooling there?

www.home-education.org.uk/articles/article-safeguarding-myth.pdf

Tbh of the child abuse cases I studied for my safeguarding course that I did as a volunteer they all had contact with professionals and one, where the little boy died, the mother was a teaching assistant at her sons school.