To encourage Ocado shoppers to read this

[Estellesylvia]

If you are an Ocado customer, you should be aware that they consider defining ‘woman’ as an adult human female to be hate speech and not ‘in line with their values’.

They threatened to pull advertising from Primesite unless Primesite took down a billboard with the OED definition of woman on it.

They have received hundreds of complaints from women since, but have refused to apologise.

Just in case you might want to consider not giving your money to a company who consider the word woman to not be in line with their values.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3376466-ocado-boycott-after-support-of-primesight-action

And if you do decide to boycott, tell them why.

I hate all the bullshit ‘born in the wrong body’. Surely if you truly thought that then you would be lining up to remove the one thing that defines your wrong body - not come out with lady dick nonsense

A couple of weeks ago there were photos all over twitter of a man who had surgery to give themselves a vagina.

Only they also kept their penis.

And yes, there were photos. Intimate photos.

I'm glad to learn about Ocado's stance on this issue. I agree with them and will be writing a letter of support. I'll ask my friends to do the same.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have, as yet never used ocado in my life- where do I sign up?

I loved Ocado before

Now I bloody adore them

Another one who has left Ocado after 10 years.

Still waiting for a definition of woman without the word 'woman' included.

I think I love ocado even more. Haven't done an order for a little while, I shall have to consider them for my next shop. Great to see companies standing up to hysterical transphobia.

You might like to know that the email they are sending out explaining their actions includes their various policies and list every protected characteristic except 'sex'.

Yep they have no (or i they do they are hiding it) sex discrimination policy

I’ve never shopped with Ocado but I will make a point to do so now. Any company which stands up against transphobia is one I am in favour of.

There is so much deliberate misinformation and disingenuity in the way this issue has been discussed in this thread and on MN generally.

Also, babysharksmummy if the concern is that questioning the aims of the trans rights activists (which doesn't include all trans people) is wrong because it's not nice, then why aren't those standards also required of the TRAs themselves? Why is nobody asking them to be nice, and stop trying to take away women's hard-won rights?

Morning!

We think now would be a good time to remind everyone of our Talk Guidelines, and stress the importance of keeping these discussions civil - opposing views which follow our Talk guidelines need to be tolerated, even if you disagree with them.

Thanks,
MNHQ

babysharksmummy Sat 29-Sep-18 09:48:47

Women are people who self-identify as women.

Listen to yourself 🤣 Do you realise you're lecturing to a huge audience of... actual women who might possibly know that it involves a lot more than just 'thinking' to make it so?

a small number of men who wish they were women.

You know what, I don't even believe that any more. I did at one time, but since finding out that 80-90% still have a penis I really don't.

Any company which stands up against transphobia is one I am in favour of.

I'd still love to know how the definition of 'woman' is transphobic!

Because saying that it is, means YOU don't think trans women are women.

Talk about Turkeys voting for Christmas.

I hate all the bullshit ‘born in the wrong body’. Surely if you truly thought that then you would be lining up to remove the one thing that defines your wrong body - not come out with lady dick nonsense

A lot of people HAVE lined up to remove their penis or add a penis, but no one seems to care about them do they. Because transgender people don’t exist in your small minds. Because the idea of a man with a beard and a penis wearing a dress in order to photograph young girls fits your agendas far better than Sarah in accounts who wears jeans and has a vagina but happened to be born as a man many years ago.

Women are people who self-identify as women. We are more than our genetic make up.

Well, the first sentence is exactly the sort of circular definition that is utterly meaningless. As for the second one, well, if we're "more" then I'm still waiting with baited breath to hear what this "more" is. Without just cobbling together a bunch of regressive 1950s stereotypes.

This is quite frankly bullshit and a very small amount of trans women are rapists and abusers.

Percentage of sex offenders in prison in the UK who are biologically male = 98% (source - ONS figures, publicly available).

Number of women (of the old-fashioned, cunty kind) in prison for sex offences = 120.

Number of people in men's prisons for sexual offences now "self-identifying" as women = 48 (source: FOI requests put in by Fair Play for Women, later confirmed by official figures).

The "it's just a small figure" claim doesn't really wash, not when it's going to increase the number of female sex offenders in women's prisons by over 1/3. Not when you're one of the four (yes, four ) women prisoners sexually assaulted by be-penised rapist Karen White in a women's prison.

Molokono
^I can't get my head around 'woman' being transphobic if TWAW

AuntBeastie

And them not following the Equality Act doesn't bother you? Them removing protections for women and men doesn't bother you?

@babysharksmummy couldn’t agree with you more, and it’s so refreshing to see this on MN

A lot of people HAVE lined up to remove their penis or add a penis, but no one seems to care about them do they. Because transgender people don’t exist in your small minds.

nope - wrong.

People who HAVE had their penises removed, are referred to as 'Truscum' by the trans movement.

TRUSCUM.

Genuine trans people are being thrown under the bus by this toxic movement, which is removing any rights that women have to even refer to themselves as 'women'.

I wonder if a poster with the dictionary definition of man would also be seen as transphobic?

Nope. We don't get any of this abuse. If someone tried to stop discussion of baldness or prostate cancer as a men's issue in the same way they complain about discussion of (for example) cervical cancer they would be derided and attacked in equal measure.

I know some people have the theoretical view that (for example) we should just say 'people with a prostate' but they don't come after our discussions because, let's face it, you lot are a much easier target.

@babysharksmummy
I report your abusive posts. The first few have already been deleted, but you continue with the name calling. You are absolutely entitled to your views, so perhaps you might want to use more respectful language so that your views are heard.

@babysharksmummy what about a rugby player who is a transman? Or a boxer? Who should they play against?

To those of you telling straightforward lies on this post, don’t you feel guilty?

Genuine trans people are being thrown under the bus by this toxic movement, which is removing any rights that women have to even refer to themselves as 'women'.

Absolutely this. These Anti Women Activists are fueling transphobia, now women trying to discuss womanhood.

iamspeedy 'there's a specific kind of board for this kind of crap. Keep it there'.

By crap, you mean woman standing up to organisations that treat them with contempt?

Honestly, as I said earlier. Serena Joy, eat your fucking heart out. You have NOTHING on these handmaidens.

The billboard in an obscure street in Liverpool was so offensive it had to be torn down but this, displayed prominently the the nation's capital, was apparently ok.

No advertisers dissociated themselves from Pink News over this blatant goading of women.

Earlywalker it is always easier to push away a view that you find difficult by distilling it into a black and white, reductive soundbite.

What about the many of us who have every sympathy for trans people, but just, sadly, cannot accept the removal of the rights of 51% of the population in order to assuage the feelings of a very small number of the people? Is that prejudice, in your view? I would be interested in your reasoning, if so.

I would also suggest that it might expand your understanding of the issues if you were to pay attention to the nuance of the argument, rather than immediately shout 'prejudice' and close your eyes/ears to the detail. Real life is not black and white.

To those of you telling straightforward lies on this post, don’t you feel guilty?

What lies exactly?

Why not disprove those lies with your own evidence?