To encourage Ocado shoppers to read this

[Estellesylvia]

If you are an Ocado customer, you should be aware that they consider defining ‘woman’ as an adult human female to be hate speech and not ‘in line with their values’.

They threatened to pull advertising from Primesite unless Primesite took down a billboard with the OED definition of woman on it.

They have received hundreds of complaints from women since, but have refused to apologise.

Just in case you might want to consider not giving your money to a company who consider the word woman to not be in line with their values.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3376466-ocado-boycott-after-support-of-primesight-action

And if you do decide to boycott, tell them why.

Fermats - this one shows it quite well. It's a few years old and uses gender instead of sex but the stats are probably more accurate than they would be now.

Genuine question - are crossdressers classed as trans now?

Not only yes, but also anyone who is gender non conforming, so if you cut your hair, ride a motorbike or enjoy football, you are a man.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sowoe71lB6A

This has probably been posted before, but I've just discovered it and thought it was fabulous!

Kristina Jayne Hamilton is a transperson who clearly illustrates the concerns that many women have with self ID.

On a side note, I'm fed up of seeing anyone daring to oppose self ID being labelled a bigot or transphobic. So many people on twitter don't even attempt to engage in a debate (there is no debate, apparently) they just sling round their insults without even considering that your thoughts and feelings are valid

Nice one Ocado, glad you're showing some backbone.

TwllBach I totally agree with your post. I'm so sorry to read of what you went through.

Yes, nice one Ocado! Isn’t misogyny just fab?

For accuracy - Posie is not banned for repeated transphobia, she is banned for being rude to Stella Creasy after she was asked not to be. I believe the comment referred to drinking prosecco up her nose with a straw if Stella actually engaged with our questions.

Second. When posie said India should live as a man, there is absolutely no reference to making India conform with stereotypical masculinity. It was quite clear from the context (something sound bites like to pretend doesn't exist...) that she was saying India could wear pretty dresses, have surgery and take hormones, but without becoming legally female. You know, like women wear jeans and no make up without having to legally change sex.

@FermatsTheorem would I be right in thinking that of the 120 women jailed in 2016 for sexual offences any man who had a gender recognition certificate to say he was a woman would be included in those statistics? Could that be a reason why 2016 was a record year for women committing sexual offences?

Terfed I think the crimes are now being recorded on self-ID rather than GRC. This came up when someone was doing a FoI request.

This is for all the Serena Joys on this thread.

And this

I don't know how we'd set about unpicking the stats. We do know (not sure off the top of my head whether this was 2017 or 2016) that there was a record breaking number of female rapists in a single year - six. Now since rape is penetration by a penis, that's either a hell of a spike in convictions under common purpose (woman holds victim down while her male accomplice does the actual penetrating) or there's a group of be-penised women rapists out there.

That's the thing about our brave new world -there's no way of knowing.

oooompa That clip is brilliant, thank you.

Kristina is measured, articulate and wise. I'll be sending that link to my daughter.

the adoptive family's granddaughter wanted a younger 'sister', so SW now IDs as a 6yo.

Jesus you need brain bleach once you start looking at any of this shit.

As pps have asked, I genuinely want someone to explain what being born into the wrong body means.

What is "it" that is born into the wrong body? Is it an otherness, that already possesses a sense of sex? Gender? So that when "it" is born into a flesh and blood body it feels "wrong" ?

If 80% of trans women do not have have their male genitalia removed but identify as a woman, an adult human female, then surely the body is not the problem? If it's the wrong body then surely you'd have to get rid of the parts that represent the wrongness? How could you live otherwise.

To be facetious, I feel like I should have been born into the Royal family, with all that entails. If I wear a tiara and insist you call me Your Royal Highness does that make me royal ? It's a ridiculous comparison, but actually is it really any more ludicrous than the statement born in the wrong body ?

I can't bring myself to Juells . The link upthread to the Canadian child rapist was a tough read. I despair that some people can't see that safeguarding, brilliantly described on here as creating a seal, has to exist because people (men and women) encompass such a huge spectrum of behaviour.

If I was a trans woman I wouldn't like to think that women wanted to maintain their single sex spaces because, amongst other considerations, of trans women like the two mentioned above. But they do exist, and nobody walks around with a post-it note on their head declaring vile intentions, so safeguarding it must be.

They don't even venture up north to be boycotted by us.

Ocardo are awesome 👏 I’ll be shopping with them.

When trans people say they were born in the wrong body, and that they deserve the same treatment as someone born with a physical impairment such as cleft palate etc, as IW said on This Morning, do they suggest that this is diagnosable? So, they have proof that they have XX chromosomes or some other chromosomal anomaly that genuinely means that their physical body doesn't match their biological/DNA identity?
As I understand it, they seem to mean that they simply feel they're women. Which, being born and socialised as male, cannot be true.
I have been born and socialised as a white woman. I cannot know how it feels to be black. I could learn, imitate, and empathise, but I couldn't take on that reality as it is not real.

And still no reply to my previous post asking how a non-specific self identified trans woman is a woman.

By complaining and removing said poster, the person that complained is saying that they don't really think that trans women are women, but that they feel it is not women's place to even define themselves unless it is in relation to trans women. The basic term for this is misogyny.

Exactly so, as Posie ably showed up when she was arguing with Harrop on Sky News.

Exactly, vienneta.

We are being asked to believe that this is a physical, medical condition, possibly starting in utero or early childhood, while simultaneously being told that it is unacceptable to impose any medical "gatekeeping", such as that required in the current Gender Recognition Act.

You can't demand both of those at the same time. Well, you can, but then you're going to get people like may saying "hang on now, which is it?".

Nothing at all to do with the increased gender stereotyping for the past few decades and those non conforming to horifically gendered advertising being confused where they should 'stand'... not at all.

Must be a medical condition

The number of autistic kids reidentifying as the opposite gender is also very, very concerning.

Misogyny is so awesome, isn’t it Jelly!!

Wow my post got deleted for saying I would define women as not having a penis and testicles
Orwellian indeed!

Wow my post got deleted for saying I would define women as not having a penis and testicles

I know weird right?