To encourage Ocado shoppers to read this

[Estellesylvia]

If you are an Ocado customer, you should be aware that they consider defining ‘woman’ as an adult human female to be hate speech and not ‘in line with their values’.

They threatened to pull advertising from Primesite unless Primesite took down a billboard with the OED definition of woman on it.

They have received hundreds of complaints from women since, but have refused to apologise.

Just in case you might want to consider not giving your money to a company who consider the word woman to not be in line with their values.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3376466-ocado-boycott-after-support-of-primesight-action

And if you do decide to boycott, tell them why.

*Hmmmm Tricky one isn’t it, to define a woman? However, I know what doesn’t define a woman - a cock and balls!!0

AKA if you've got a dick you ain't a chick.

Which I saw on a loo door in the USA.

@DisrespectfulAdultFemale I'm talking about the medical requirements to have gender reassignment surgery in the UK. You would we'd to take up your comments and queries with the NHS not me.

I just believe that transwomen are women

That's the nub of it here, I think. You believe that.

I don't want to live in a society where people can be compelled to act in accordance with other people's beliefs when those beliefs aren't grounded in material reality.

It's like believing in a soul. I want you to be able to believe you have one, and act accordingly. But I'll dig my toes in if you want to compel me to believe the same and for public life to be set up in favour of your belief.

@juells

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

communal loos/changing rooms results in a 800-900% increase compared to single sex facilities. The statistics are all there, I also posted stats about rape on my previous post.

Well done Ocado! This is all ridiculous.

Just wandering over from the other thread that's now full. Have ocado made any statement yet then?

Doesn’t this just highlight that the fundamental issue here is the sex v gender issue and that no one (in power) seems to be able to figure out how to balance this, nor how to protect the rights of everybody without trying to define, redefine and railroad ‘the other.’ It’s all fence building then rather than boundary busting.

If a trans women identifies as a woman then ‘adult human female’ surely also, in its way, applies, if we’re talking about their true biological self.

If the issue is the use of the word ‘female’ then the issue lay not with women protecting their right to be female but with those who believe we should not assign names to our biological sex because it is construed as discrimination. That is a social and medical impossibility. We can not erase the existence of biological sex!

I can sort of see why Ocado took the board down as it was obviously supposed to be goady but, quite simply, could similar not also have been used by a pro group to make the same point? Otherwise what is actually happening is an admission that these words can’t belong to a trans woman if the use of ‘female’ can be seen as hate speech. What would have happened if the billboard was supposed to have that message and women had been in uproar? Would they all have been called transphobic when it’s not actually about that at all - it’s about a woman’s right to also be allowed to self id.

I totally support a trans woman’s right to call herself a woman but I will also, always, defend my right to call myself, factually and accurately, a female. That is my right, my self-id, and as a human/female/whatever else i consider myself, my choice of descriptors is not designed to undermine anyone else’s.

The other side of this issue is a huge discussion that needs to put measures in place to protect everyone in any situation and one I think cannot be swiftly dealt with. A simple idea I’ve recently seen at a gender neutral toilet was that there was not a door into the area, rather a very wide archway, so it is an open space other than the cubicles. They could do the same with changing rooms so that there is less of a feeling of being ‘locked away’ but these would have to be mandatory, legal steps to make this a feasible way to honour and protect all individuals.

@Bibijayne

So you actually believe that Ian Huntley is a woman?

Right.

Can you please talk us through your thinking on this.

Start from the point at which you know he was jailed for raping and murdering two schoolgirls. And was put into prison for it.

Then he says he is actually a woman.

What does your brain go through to accept this as fact?

@bibijayne, you haven't answered my question. You said "live as a woman" and I asked you what that meant and provided a list of things that women experience or do.

Your response "medical requirements" makes no sense at all, like the rest of your posts. The NHS isn't on this thread; you are.

Have ocado made any statement yet then?

Nope. My belief is that they are waiting for this to blow over. Not surprising, given the fact that they have a raging misogynist for a CEO.

I just believe that transwomen are women

You believe humans can change sex?
How?

Just looked at trust pilot. They had 3 start yesterday but are now down to 2 and a 'poor' rating with a 4.9 out of 10 score.

I'm sure they don't give a shiny shit though. But their shareholders might.

How?

That's what I'd like to know. I'd also like to know how it differs from wishful thinking. Or belief in fairies and leprechauns and God.

I have checked Ocado’s Twitter account and can’t see the tweets anywhere.
Have they been removed?

Fekko, just before Ocado waded into this, their trustpilot rating was something like 5.5.

I am tempted to buy a share so that I can attend a shareholders' meeting.

They are getting pummelled on TP
Now a Poor rating
Hard to turn that around
If they don’t care they should
Perhaps it’s unprecended so the low level TP replied won’t respond and higher up are taking time to tell people what to do
But ignoring it isn’t going to help

Unprecedented

Low level TP replier - fast typing

Bibi I am 10 years older than you, and at your age, if this issue had come up then, I would probably have automatically held the same views. The intervening years have rather painfully led me to understand that not everybody is a lovely soul just going about their life, trying to mind their own business.

The eg you give about the pre GRC transwoman feeling uncomfortable in men's loos, is indeed a tough one. However, allowing any man into the women's loos if they say they identify as a woman that day will inevitably raise the risk that women and girls will be put in danger.

Are you cognisant of the physical and emotional damage that is caused by rape and sexual assault? Do you understand the life-long mental health issues that can result from that, causing untold misery and often a change in life trajectory? If so, why are you not empathising with women's concerns over this? Do you just see a few extra rape victims as acceptable collateral damage, so that no trans individuals are caused any upset?

A lot of people HAVE lined up to remove their penis or add a penis

Can we have your dictionary definition of "a lot" please?

And provide evidence? Not opinion; evidence that can be verified.

when it's well documented that people can be born in the wrong body and still identify as a woman.

LOL. Is it really? Do link.

I find this really difficult to articulate my feelings about.

On the one hand, I have absolute sympathy for people that are suffering from

Genuine question - are crossdressers classed as trans now?

According to Stonewall, yes.

Don't want to derail, but how can a definition of a woman be offensive? most of Ocado's customers are women.

I think they have been utterly appalling. How can we in a society where the definition of woman is offensive and a billboard has to be taken down??

Can I not refer to myself as a woman now, as it may make someone feel scared or excluded. FFS.