To say that rape may as well be legal in this country?

[Destinysdaughter]

Many years ago , Julie Bindel wrote this article saying that rape may as well be legal in this country.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2007/feb/01/penal.genderissues

Today I read the following article which will send a chill through anyone who has been a victim of this horrific crime...

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/25/revealed-uk-police-demanding-access-data-potential-rape-victims

Spot on @GoldenWonderwall

The CPS only take trials to court that they have a good chance of winning. Even they know that jury's are imperfect humans and will judge a woman on her history. They can't afford lower conviction rates or high court costs so they (almost understandably) just don't bother if it's anyone other than a nun-like victim

And yet we still have people coming on telling us "oh silly wims it isn't that bad stop being all gross and feministy". Why can't they just piss off the the MRA corner of the world to gather with the other sloped skull morons

And to use the logic "well animals do it" - I don't have enough hours in the day to counteract that much stupid

I think you need to learn how to read stats - only 15% of rapes are reported. Of those, 48% result in a charge. This doesn't mean going to court. The 58% convictions are the very few that DO go to court. It's a tiny proportion of rapes that take place, if a man rapes someone he's highly likely to get away with it

To reinforce that point - start with 1000 women who've been raped.

15% of them 150 report.

Of those 150, 48% to to trial. That's 72 cases.

Of those 72 cases, 58% result in convictions. That's just a shade under 42.

Of our 1000 women, that means that 958 of them don't see their attacker convicted. Of the men carrying out those rapes, that means most walk free to carry out more rapes.

Compare the 72 cases out of 1000 reaching trial for rape with the figures for murder and manslaughter.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/getting-away-murder-more-quarter-12334711
In the area covered by the Metropolitan police, 72% of murder cases reached trial - that's 10 times as many as for rape. And that was considered a scandal because that year the figure had fallen from its previous value of 90%.

(I'm not sure what I'm more gobsmacked by on this thread - the rape apologism or the fact that the rape apologists can't fucking do maths.)

the conviction rates for probably every crime would drop massively if you include guesses at the unreported crime numbers.

base it on things you know- you know how many were reported, you know how many were charged and how many convicted.

dividing all of that by 15% for an estimate of nonreported decimates every figure obviously and we dont do that for any other crime. only reported crimes can be prosecuted

YY Fermats, considering 85,000 women are raped a year, 81,500 of those women don't see their rapist put behind bars.

The conviction rates for probably every crime would drop massively if you include guesses at the unreported crime numbers

Well yes - but my point is the conviction rate may be 58% but the number of actual rapes which end in a conviction is pitiful.

I don't see what is so hard to understand.

agreed

but one reason people are being put off reporting is that they think theres only a 6% chance of conviction. but if you report it the chance is far greater

if you dont report it it is 0%

I don't see what is so hard to understand

I reported a rape this year. The police asked to see evidence of a text and then scrolled through taking photographs of all my previous texts with the person. They collected that evidence without my consent. Their comments were "You had a colourful text life between you" then "You seem pretty ok with things on text so why did that change in the bedroom? You know sexual boundaries have changed since 50 shades of grey and women need to accept it." "Did he stop when you asked" when I said he did eventually I was told "Well whats the issue?". Needless to say I have not been in further contact. And this was with a text confession. It is disgusting.

Can we organise a massive march to end the casual acceptance of male violence against women in society?

My brother was in the police and at one point was in the department that specialises in rape crimes. He hated it because he said the majority of cases are viewed in court as one word against another, and providing evidence that is considered enough to convict is near impossible as the majority of victims don't go immediately and report it. Obviously not victim blaming just saying that the police would quite like to lock rapists up too. He said another infuriating issue was charges being dropped, as the whole thing is so traumatic for the victim that they don't always manage to sustain the process until the end. No doubt I'll get flamed for this input but oh well, there's another perspective for you.

@araiwa how do you think the number of murders that don't get reported compared with the number of rapes that do not get reported? I'm curious.

To me, the situation seems designed to discourage women who have been raped from seeking legal redress. So how long can it be before people resort to less legal options?

NC11 That's fucking shite. And the "well things have changed after 50 shades, women just have to accept that." WTF?

@ElainaElephant

a lot fewer non reported murders but not zero

but exact numbers- no idea and neither does anyoneelse

Fermats thank you, it was a woman detective that said it too! I just shut down after that and answered "I don't know" to everything because I just wanted them out of my house and it was clear they weren't taking it seriously. I've never even been contacted about victim support or anything after. I vowed never to report anything to them again unless it was for insurance purposes.

Narcoleptic there was a 24 Hours in Police Custody episode last year that looked specifically at the difficulties of rape investigations and the near impossibility of providing enough evidence to get the CPS go ahead to charge and then secure conviction.

The saddest thing about this thread is the number of women who have been through the most gut wrenching ordeals, seen no justice at all and have said they'd advise their daughters against reporting rape if it happened to them. I totally understand those feelings, given how appallingly Many of them have been treated by the justice system, but my heart ache for my own daughter to think that men can go around literally getting away with it in the vast majority of cases. What a fucked up world.

@ElainaElephant how do you think the number of class a drug deals that don't get reported compared with the number of rapes that do not get reported? I'm curious.

Actually we do know how many rapes happen that don't get reported

so how many?

give me an exact number for a year period

If the police and cps are telling you that it is perfectly reasonable to have your whole life laid bare in order to be able to accurately judge if you were the victim of a crime no one would report anything would they?

You say you’ve been burgled Mr Smith, but on 21st December 2016 you made a joke saying ‘Man Utd had been robbed’ on Facebook. Evidence there you lightly use theft terms, case dismissed.

You claim, Ms Jones that your missing mother was stabbed to death by your father and you witnessed it. We have evidence you tweeted ‘you could murder a kebab’ and your Netflix account shows you watch numerous crime serials. Perhaps you’re making this up for attention? You did tell your dad you loved him on his birthday so how can it be you now accuse him of a crime?

YANBU. So what can we do about it? The law derides and persecutes rape/DV victims and vigilantism is risky. I wish I knew the answer.

Here you go @araiwa it's all here including the 6% (we'll actually 5.7% to be precise) conviction rate of all rapes https://rapecrisis.org.uk/statistics.php

It's awful isnt it? same in my country.

The patriarchy sees it as TERRIBLE that a man could be falsely accused (very rare) but tears women apart.

@araiwa The numbers of class a drug deals have not been discussed on this thread, so I'm not seeing the relevance of your question. It's also not a comparable offence, as both parties are colluding rather than one being a victim in the way that there is a victim with a rape or murder.

@Stillherestill - hmm looks like you’ve had a busy day trolling any threads about women’s rights (and a previously banned poster at that - I wonder what that was for...). Don’t you have a MRA rock to crawl back under - off you pop.