To say that rape may as well be legal in this country?

[Destinysdaughter]

Many years ago , Julie Bindel wrote this article saying that rape may as well be legal in this country.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2007/feb/01/penal.genderissues

Today I read the following article which will send a chill through anyone who has been a victim of this horrific crime...

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/25/revealed-uk-police-demanding-access-data-potential-rape-victims

I was raped as an 18 year old. I actually don’t think about the rape itself any more really, it certainly hasn’t scarred me for life. Explaining my sexual preferences and sexual behaviour in front of a room full of strangers, my rapist, his parents and my parents is something I burn with humiliation from on a daily basis.

And, unsurprisingly, he was found not guilty. There was no denying we’d had sex and I’d been injured badly enough to need hospital treatment but no evidence that he’d intended to harm me or that me asking him to stop wasn’t just sex talk. Even better he’s now on a position of power and makes decisions on behalf of my local community. What a hero.

If I had a daughter who had been raped I would tell her to not report it. If she had been raped and had a written confession from her rapist and her rapist admitted raping her I would tell her not to report it.

No. YANBU. After following 'Justice4Chelsey' it is my opinion that the women and children of this country are being handed on a plate to the male population.

I fully support the women of Sunderland marching to demand action.

No it's 1 in 4 women raped at least once and the conviction rate is 6%.
I know this because of the report I made for rape recently that went nowhere.

A relative was raped a few years ago. It's left her with many mental scars and crushing anxiety. The police didn't even charge him because it was her word against his and they didn't want to be accused of targeting him for his race.

All because she froze and didn't inflict harm on the bastard he claimed it was consensual and that was good enough for the police.

If something horrific like that happens to our daughters we wouldn't bother with the police. We'd just deal with it ourselves and live with the consequences.

The powers that be only care when it's one of theirs affected. Normal women can just be thrown to the wolves

It gets worse www.theguardian.com/law/2018/sep/24/prosecutors-rape-cases-cps-crown-prosecution-service-conviction-rates

YANBU. I reported what happened and he was found not guilty. He's free to do it to someone else and now knows he can get away with it.
I would never report rape or sexual assault again which has left me feeling extremely vulnerable. I wouldn't discourage anyone else but for me it's not something I could ever go through again.

My DD was raped by a friend and didn't report it.

She was also assaulted by a stranger in the middle of the day on her way home from work, outside a school, and did report it. He gave her his tel no as a way of 'chatting her up' (she was too afraid not to take it). The police did absolutely nothing. She saw him numerous times in town after.

Later he was caught assaulting a school girl on the school grounds and was prosecuted. He had assaulted a further 5 girls between my DD and the last one. The police had done absolutely nothing. He had also assaulted some girls before my DD.

How many young women now have this to deal with because the police did absolutely nothing. Sickening.

‘They are not allowed to character assassinate the victim’

Oh how I’m laughing over here at the idea that this is true! Like Lucy I was also a witness in my own rape case, where I was held to account for having dared to have casual sex with other people, where I was humiliated because of my choice of clothing and hair colour - in court btw, as well when it actually happened.

In my case the police were great and he was convicted. After two trials though.

Name change for this, sorry...

True story:

I have been accused of rape.

I went out for a drink with a girl I know and who knows other friends of mine. We had a couple, she became very forward but told me she didn't want to have sex and then she invited me back to hers.

We fooled around, she changed her mind and tried to have sex with me, I didn't feel comfortable because we'd been drinking and said that I'm cool to be fooling around but I'm not having sex. That's how the night played out. As we fooled around she was violent and aggressive, scratched me and bit me and urged me to be violent towards her as well. Me and other partners do have a pretty unconventional sex life, multiple partners, s&m, but it's not somewhere I ever go with a partner who's new to me as it's a deeper than normal level of trust required IME, so I was less than lukewarm on the idea that I'd just jump into that with her. It was weird and intense and in the morning we parted on good terms, she wanted to see me again but I wasn't so sure as something didn't sit right with me.

The next day one of our mutual friends rang me to say that this girl had said I'd raped her and was going to the police. And guess what? Covered in scratches and bites I looked like i'd just fucking raped someone!

It transpired that she had accused others in the past of doing the same, and has done it a few times after this incident as well

Anyway, the point of the story: I understand that people, especially those that have been victims themselves, have a greater affinity for the victims in rape cases and I do agree on the most part that victims should be afforded more protection in the legal system BUT what do you do about cases like that detailed above?

I don't think there's ever going to be an answer that suits everyone, or an approach that doesn't fail some people, sometimes it'll be the victim that's failed and sometimes it will be the accused that's failed, but that's the same in every aspect of law. It isn't a definitive science.

The idea of innocent people being put in jail, or having their lives ruined by accusations that don't stand up, is abhorrent to most people in nearly all other types of cases. As rape is, rightly, such an emotive crime I do think some people's view and judgement of the system in this respect can be clouded through harsh personal experience but that's why victims don't set the law

If I was ever raped again this time I would track him down and make his life a living hell. Then do something entirely unsavoury to his testicles, without remorse.

I would not report it. I don't think any sort of punishment handed down in law would be enough.

I’m sorry to sound harsh - but what about cases like that?

No one is saying they’re wrong. And no one believes that. But what you’re missing is that everyone said she’d made false accusations before - and this was believed. Automatically, the assumption is that there is some form of lying on the woman’s part. Always. In your case there was a reason behind that, but in most, even if several women have said they were assaulted by the same person, they are picked apart and found to be wanting in modesty, humility or whatever.

I’m willing to bet the women who make false accusations are convicted in a much higher % than rapists are.

YABU. These kinds of thingz are often used by the defence to rebut a rape claim. It's reasonable that police would want to check for anything indicating that the case would fail in court before perusing a lengthy investigation and then passing on to cps. In instances where there no witnesses or cctv how else do you expect them to investigate the case?

some people's view and judgement of the system in this respect can be clouded through harsh personal experience

Yes. Like you and the scenario you just described as justification for abysmal rape investigations, despicable trials and next-to-nil convictions for a crime that affects thousands upon thousands of women every year.

Now fuck off with your women-are-liars whataboutery.

Op: Several news reports detailing how hard it is to get rape prosecuted and where it is investigated, the victims are scrutinised to find any tiny piece of evidence that really, they’re just lying bitches who can’t be trusted.

Poster: let me tell you my story about a lying bitch who made up lies about me raping her and got taken seriously by the police! Please explain how this woman did not get treated the same way as everyone else and was automatically believed? Also why did you not just go home when it was obvious the evening wasn’t what you wanted?

The police don’t take anyone seriously when they report rape and are cps are not prosecuting anything that’s not cut and dried virginal nun dragged into dark alley by scary looking psycho with knife. How progressive we are in 2018.

for everyone effected by this shit.

So what would you change?

Its pretty impossible for the police or cps to gather any evidence much beyond he said / she said which isnt enough for a conviction beyond reasonable doubt

This is not in fact right in a rape trial you are not allowed to bring the victim credibility into question (aka are they liars as in if they have been convicted of fraud or any other such offence which proves they are willing to lie on offical or about important things).

The defendant has no such protection its stupid that in cases where it hangs in the balance whom you should believe/ more trust worthy you are only allowed to hear about the defendant's untrustworthy actions. Aka they are allowed to character assisanite the defendant but not even allowed to bring up if the accuser is known to lie.

Ah what would a rape thread be without our resident apologist talking bollocks again. You are SO wrong worrid. I do wonder why you always come on these threads and basically spout lies. What's your agenda? Why do you hate rape victims?

Also could we possibly have one thread about rape without someone piping up with the whole false accusation bollocks? Take it elsewhere

YANBU OP.

I wouldn't report a rape.

The current system is terrifying. I worked in a police station and saw the attitudes there, assuming that the female had made it up/drank too much/over reacted etc. It's very worrying. Does anyone know how to start a petition to action some change regarding the current system? I have two daughters and feel scared for their futures. Also would think hard about whether to encourage them to go to the police. Very sorry for those who have been affected themselves by rape.

to those of you who have been through this. It is just abhorrent and I don't have the answers as to how we can rectify this - other than if reporters of a rape/sexual assault are being questioned and investigated in this manner then the accused ought to be too. Simple as.

So what would you change

So much.

For a start, for the burden of proof to be on the rapist. Secondly, for previous consensual sexual history to never be allowed into a trial. It's NEVER relevant. Thirdly, guaranteed jail sentences for those who names victims. Chef Evans victim went through hell and back because people named her and got a slap on the wrist. For reports to police to be taken more seriously - like the PP up thread who got assaulted outside a school. Also some sort of campaign to show people who rare false accusations are and that 'not guilty' doesn't mean 'innocent'. So much of what prevents women coming forward is rape culture and these attitudes feed into this. And a culture change internally within the police who have a terrible track record of treating victims like criminals

I found this quite hard to read and quite triggering.

The fact is though that a lot of our society allows this to happen. They protect the perpetrator more than the victim.

I was assaulted. I was an adult, as an instructor with the army cadets. The man who did it was still employed by the Army. Everyone closed ranks and treated me like I was a fucking inconvenience.

I wanted to go home. They convinced me to stay for the full week.

I wasn't sure if I should tell the police because I was drunk. I said "they won't do anything because I was drunk, right?" They said they thought that was the best course of action.

They took a statement from me, I wrote it down. I had no-one professional to talk to.

When I returned home they advised me to tell the police. Ironically, that was after the window for forensic evidence had closed.

I had one member of staff tell me they thought whatever I had talked to the padre about had caused his heart attack that he had later that day.

I had a member of staff say "we did try and encourage the other ladies to warn others about him". As if that was fucking good enough. As if that absolved them of any further responsibility.

I did a video interview and had to relive that fucking nightmare and present it in some sort of coherent way.

I suffered from PTSD, anxiety, depression. I couldn't leave the house. I was scared of being alone with any male. I was scared of being alone in my house.

At my lowest point, I wanted to end it and drink bleach.

I got counselling though. That was the only place I could try and piece things together.

The CPS decided my case wasn't strong enough to go through. The police officer who handled my case (who was lovely and v supportive) said in some ways in was a blessing in disguise. That the court process is actually awful to go through. I don't doubt that at all.

The police officer said that he believed me. That felt wonderful having someone believe me. But I have no doubt that because it didn't go through, those people who closed ranks and shunned me, they must have felt like they did the right thing. Like their behaviour towards me justified. It fucking wasn't.

We have a long way to go until these cases are dealt with properly.

What can we do though? Those who have been confided in... those who have been asked for a bit of comfort... those who have the privilege of being asked to listen to a victim... please just listen and believe. Having that one person who believes you makes the biggest difference in the world.

This really triggered me. It took 2 bouts of counselling to deal with this in my head. It took a lot of energy and quite a few mental health struggles. I KNOW what that man did, I KNOW he is a despicable individual. I KNOW that my case is on file and kept in their records for a long time. I KNOW that one day he will make the same stupid mistake again and I HOPE that my case can be used against him. And I am STRONGER for having SURVIVED it. I am a SURVIVOR NOT A VICTIM.

Just because the CPS is shite doesn't mean you shouldn't report it. It could still help in the future. It could still help someone else.

@PlinkPlink

That was a very good post @GunpowderGelatine

I still can't believe that they use people's past history against them. Doesn't fucking matter if they consented to have an orgy with their hometown cricket team prior to the assault/rape. That has absolutely nothing to do with the here and now.
Awful. Just awful. Because in the rape blame culture, rape victims should apparently be wholly monogamous or virgins.

No means fucking no... right there, in that moment, that should be enough for someone to go 'Woah, okay... that's it... that's the end there'.

Thank you for the flowers. Apparently I needed to vent. Haven't done that for a long time.