To say that rape may as well be legal in this country?

[Destinysdaughter]

Many years ago , Julie Bindel wrote this article saying that rape may as well be legal in this country.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2007/feb/01/penal.genderissues

Today I read the following article which will send a chill through anyone who has been a victim of this horrific crime...

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/25/revealed-uk-police-demanding-access-data-potential-rape-victims

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/17/metropolitan-police-london-rape-murder-conviction-fall

This article suggests that two thirds of murders are convicted, and just 7% of rapes.

Those numbers don't seem to be too similar to me...

@ElaniaElephant

"Those numbers don't seem to be too similar to me..."

Yes. I assume that the issue is your intelligence.

The conviction rate for rape is 58%. That bears repeating. The conviction rate for rape, is 58%. The conviction rate for reportable crimes of all types is 57%.

I'll link to the same source as you.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/mar/19/myths-about-rape-conviction-rates

I know someone currently perusing a domestic violence case against her partner. They want to to take her phone and keep it until the case comes to court. That’s madness she hasn’t got anything to prove.

Pursuing not perusing

@gamerwidow

The only possible conclusion from your post and "she doesn't have anything to prove" is that her partner is guilty unless they prove themselves innocent.

She, as the accuser, has everything to prove. (I'm well aware of certain sections of society who believe that crimes with a female victim and male accused need a lower bar for a conviction but this doesn't sit well with me).

Did I misunderstand your point?

The main issue is that people who talk about the patriarchy and rape culture tend to be people who are hard to take seriously

Why?

1 in 10 women are raped in the U.K. 1 in 5 are sexually assaulted. Do you think that high number is a coincidence? Why do you think so many people rape?

I havent reported the multiple rapes carried out by me towards me. What is the point?

He got conditional discharge for abh and threats to kill. Probably still wouldnt have gone to jail if I could have stomached testifying against him in court

The main issue is that people who talk about the patriarchy and rape culture tend to be people who are hard to take seriously

Who/what are you babbling about there? Are you being serious, does this represent your viewpoint?

Attitudes like that are precisely what I was talking about earlier. This dismissive attitude towards it. It's disgusting.

Am I hard to take seriously btw, as someone who is discussing patriarchy and rape culture? Are any of those actresses who were survivors of rape and sexual assault?

I seriously hope this is not your viewpoint...

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/23/revealed-less-than-a-third-of-young-men-prosecuted-for-are-convicted

And heres something from this week. It includes a link to the cps report also dated this week for 2016-17

"Figures from the CPS show that just over half reports of rape resulted in a charge in 2016-17. Of the cases that were prosecuted, 42% did not result in a conviction."

Honestly, if my daughters were to suffer this I would go vigilante, because the chances of them actually getting justice would be slim to none and I could not bear it.

"Do you think that high number is a coincidence? "

With what?

That's half an argument.

If more women reported and got these crimes to court, it is better.

@araiwa do you think women are sitting around filing their nails waiting to get round to reporting their rape? Or do you think there are perhaps very good reasons as to why they don't report rapes?

more might decide to do it if they thought the conviction rate at trial is nearly ten times higher than the 6% quoted

A tiny number go to trial, and when they do it's not exactly a walk in the park. Women pasta, their sexual pasts are gone over with a fine tooth comb, they have to talk about this in a room full of strangers, their family and friends, and their rapist. Look at the woman who was raped by Irish rugby players - each lawyer got to question her, she was a victim on the stand for days being judged a called a liar. A woman on this very thread had her clothes and hair made fun of. These are rape victims.. I'll only agree with you that we should encourage more rapes to be reported once we sort out a system that doesn't demonise and scrutinise irrelevant but personal details about the victim. Have a read of the OP's link - this is what happens to women who are raped. It is not as simple as 'just report it' - if you can't comprehend that I don't know what else to say really

@stillHereStill my question is - why do you think so many men rape and sexually assault women? Why is it so rife?

@araiwa I think you need to learn how to read stats - only 15% of rapes are reported. Of those, 48% result in a charge. This doesn't mean going to court. The 58% convictions are the very few that DO go to court. It's a tiny proportion of rapes that take place, if a man rapes someone he's highly likely to get away with it

Are you one of those #webelieveyou types?

I am. Is that a bad thing?

What kind of areshole comes on a thread where women are sharing their experiences of rape reporting, and spouts nonsense about how it's not that bad? I wonder, I wonder

"why do you think so many men rape and sexually assault women?"

Only men rape in the UK. That's due to the wording of the law. In other countries, where the law is different, men and women are on a much more even footing.

I think the reason men are more likely to commit certain crimes is because they can. They're physically stronger and Twitter and hashtags can't overcome millennia of evolution. Many animals rape if it is genetically beneficial. Many males fight (to the death) over mates and kill the infants of their rivals. All of these can be explained by a Y4.

The difficulties only transpire when we pretend that humans are somehow different.

@stillHereStill the conviction rate for all the rape cases brought to trial is 58%.

That's not the same as the conviction rate for all rape cases.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/sexualoffencesinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017

@stillherestill

Thank you for that Guardian link above. Always helps to have links (also thanks to OP).

It still stands though that the majority of cases of sexual assaults and rapes are genuine (I will see if I can find a link for this statement). Only a small percentage are not.
For me, especially at a time when I was mentally broken and ill, after what he had done to me, that figure wouldn't have been high enough or at least, isn't encouraging enough to go through it all (even if he CPS had said yes to my case).

yes i wouldn't rush my DDs or myself to the police station if it happened, unless someone video'd it, or it was caught on CCTV and even then, it comes down to a traumatizing character assassination. It's surely still the case that you need 3rd party testimony to have any reasonable expectation of justice being done.

Im not saying its the one and only thing but if women believed they had a good chance of getting their attacker convicted, more may take the difficult and brave decision to report.

You cant include non reported in your overall as its 0% conviction for every crime.

Only men rape in the UK. That's due to the wording of the law

Technically you're correct, but they also commit 98% of sexually violent crime, and 88% of violent crime. Why do you think that is? Why is it so disproportionate?

In other countries, where the law is different, men and women are on a much more even footing.

There is no country on the world where women commit sexual violence at the same rate men do.

Many animals rape if it is genetically beneficial. The difficulties only transpire when we pretend that humans are somehow different

What a lovely sentiment on a thread where humans are talking about rape. Humans are also more evolved (apart from a few people on this thread). You sound like you're trying to justify it. And even a Y4 would understand how humans are different to animals - animals also savage each other, now why do you think that's not acceptable in the human world, hmm?

So your theory is "men rape because they can" - that not a reason. Why do you think they want to rape because they can

Im not saying its the one and only thing but if women believed they had a good chance of getting their attacker convicted, more may take the difficult and brave decision to report.

And I'm telling you why they may not feel up to it. Even if the attack is filmed on CCTV of the woman has what's deemed to be a 'dodgy' past it's highly likely the CPS won't take it to trial, knowing they may not convince a jury of guilt.

You cant include non reported in your overall as its 0% conviction for every crime.

Yes I can. Because those rapes still happened. I especially can when only 15% of rapes are reported, it's the only way to get a true picture of the situation.

@stillherestill

My intelligence is the problem? Really? That's where you have chosen to go?

One third of ALL MURDERS end up with no conviction. All murders. Not reported murders, or murders that go to trial. All murders.

58% of rapes that GO TO TRIAL get a conviction.

You are not comparing like with like.

There’s no logic is there in investigating the minutiae of a woman’s past to see if she was raped or not? The purpose of it is to discredit her as a witness because if she is not a virginal nun, en route to her voluntary job working with sick kiddies and a man who practically has ‘rapist 4 life’ tattooed on his forehead grabs her from behind with his large knife and drags her from broad daylight into a dark alley in front of several unimpeachable witnesses, there will always been something someone has said or done that can be interpreted as either ‘she was asking for it’ or ‘she’s a lying witch out to ruin some poor man’s life’. A woman’s communication history cannot tell you if rape took place, it can only help you cast doubt you can use to then get the accused off because it has to be 100% cast iron perfect to result in conviction.

You may think that this is acceptable but I think it is unacceptable there are millions of rape victims in this country and hardly any of them will ever see any justice. How can we be ok with that?