9 months on I am grieving for the loss of my son - he has gone NC on us

[birdladyfromhomealone]

I will try not to drip feed, but I am devastated that our son has chosen to cut us out of his life.
Every night I go to sleep thinking about him and wake up in the morning with a pit in my stomach.
I have spoken to him several times since Feb on his terms, when he will allow me to but he refuses to meet us, as he says it will just be another arguement.
Our DS met his DW at uni 11 years ago, she is from a different culture but born here.
For 5 years she kept our DS secret from her family, she had to go home EVERY weekend. Even though she was living with our DS, having a relationship with us, lived with us whilst they flat hunted, holiday's, meals out, staying over etc
She was treated very well by us and was one of the family. Me and my 2 DD and her used to go for spa days, nights out etc .
We all got on.
Then my DS proposed with my DM engagement ring .
A huge diamond with rubies,
We arranged to have it made into a solitare and the rubies into earrings.
This was a huge thing for me to pass on my DM ring, I wanted my DS to give it to her as we loved her.
After they got engaged she told her family and my DS was welcomed into their family ( she said it would destroy her family for her to be with a white man)
Her parents arranged 2 weddings one for their religion and one civil white wedding.
We felt like guests at our sons wedding.
We were told what to wear and how and when to behave.
The next day 40 of the brides family turned up at ours for lunch. We invited her immediate family only.
I told my son off and he got very emotional. I admit I was cross
After that things were never the same.
A year after they got married he gave up a city job in London to work for her father, moved 300miles and moved in with them.
He told us 3 weeks before he moved although they had been planning it for months.
They then bought a house just down the road so she still sees her family daily.
I bought them a surprise of some furniture for their new home, she refused to let the delivery driver take it off the van.
We then had a huge row as she said I disrespected her.
We have not seen them since.
My DH told our DS it had made us ill.
My DH has gone on antidepressants and I have been diagnosed with stomach ulcers.
Our DS reacted very badly to be told this and said he does not have a DF anymore.
Our 2 DD are stuck in the middle as they still see their DB and DSIL (once or twice since) but cant try to resolve this for our family as DS goes off on one if our names are mentioned.
For the last 11 yrs we have been a very close family, holidays, nights out, weekend breaks.
We are devastated by this but there is no talking to our DS he hangs up on us or ignores messages.

I have learnt to ignore my OH when he says, the adult kids said xyz about you. That really is going down the rabbit hole, because his interpretation of what they said could lead to ructions.

My own DM I went no contact with because she would behind our back say awful things about her children to our friends, her friends, in fact anyone who would listen. Then she would tell us "Your friend said" aaiigghh......

So you haven't picked up that Sarah's family now provide OP's son, let's call him Simon to humanise him, with his home and his job. You haven't noticed that, not only are Simon's family estranged but also his friends and he now lives 300 miles away from his former support network , entirely dependent on Sarah's family?

I've picked up on it, but they're not facts about Sarah. There is a difference between inferences that may be drawn about Sarah, and facts about Sarah.

Simon has gone NC with OP. It is possible that it's all Sarah's fault, but I personally think the OP would be better off starting off from the position that Simon is genuinely upset and has an entirely valid perspective of his own, and engage with him accordingly. I can assure you that it does not work well to dismiss your adult son or daughter's feelings, and to presume that they're only upset with you because their mean, nasty wife/husband made them do it!

In the event that Simon is in an abusive relationship, how will treating him as if he is incapable of thinking for himself help him?

I wasnt going to post again , but TBH I'm sick of a few posters projecting their own NC situations on to mine.
I made "huge" deal of the ring because it was a huge deal to give son my DM ring as an indication of how much we loved and supported his relationship with DIL
This DIL who once she told her family of her secret dropped us from a great height.
I took great pains in my OP NOT to paint her in a bad light , but to tell my side, that yes I had made mistakes, I hold my hands up.
I invited her immeduiate family to lunch the day after the wedding. She said all my cousins etc would have to come otherwise they would be offended. Our DS told her NO several times.
It was planned well in advance as I had to source Halal meat which was very difficult in our area.
Yet they still turned up demanding alcohol and then ate Halal meat. They were extremely rude to us and hypocritical.
Her sister has bought a house with her secret partner and he came to the wedding and sat on the "friends" table.
Their lives are dictatated by lies and secrets.
I could write a whole new thread on some of the lies and deciets from our DIL but we loved her and welcomed her into our lives.
I do believe that she orchestrated this estrangement from our son, however if I had berated her on here I would have been slated for that too.
I hope that none of you are ever in the same position

Indeed his friends from school and Uni keep in touch with us too and are all of the same opinion.
He has been isolated from his friends , family and career.
It is not just us who has these worries.

Why do you think he’s been isolated from his career against his will? Lots of people change careers and London city jobs are pretty intense. Did he tell you “I wanted to keep my job but DIL ordered me to leave it”? Or did he have another explanation?

You did mention above that he’s still in touch with his sisters, so at least he hasn’t been cut off from his whole family.

Bird lady....

with the greatest respect my brothers married girls from different cultures. One Indian, one Thai. My Mother handled it badly, partly from ignorance of their cultures she thought because they lived in UK they would have British attitudes. WRONG!!! They both went no contact with her.

She had offered her home while they saved up for their own place. That really does not count when everything pans out and they have moved into their own place. A wise aged relative told me your children owe you nothing, you chose to have them.

Frankly you are on a hiding to nothing, you have to suck it up because your children will always choose their life partner over you.

CesiraAndEnrico

I would also add that sometimes people end up letting longstanding friendships lapse after going NC with a close family member, simply because they can't bear to deal with the questions, and can't handle being asked to explain what led up to the 'last straw'.

Oh and forget the bloody ring. I have not handed mine over, they will go to the grand daughters.

OP

I know someone whose son has gone NC & she has gone & had her will changed. The solicitor told her it happens so often & almost always it is the son who has been turned by his wife/partner

A son's a son... etc

JamieVardysHavingAParty

Yes, you are right. The "dirty laundry shame hump" can feel too big to face.

Indeed his friends from school and Uni keep in touch with us too and are all of the same opinion.

Leaving aside that is not particularly common for significant numbers of school and university friends of a man in his 30s to have a direct relationship with his parents....all share your opinion ?

That is an unusually high percentage (unless we are talking about just 1 or 2 individuals, who perhaps your son felt were too far over the friend boundary and into a more direct relationship with his parent to include in his future once a rift took place)

If these friends are in contact in more significant numbers, it's unusual because humans tend not to be so uniform in such a wholesale fashion. There are almost always those with hidden life shadows of their own. Or possessing a more cynical nature. Or with a strong preference to not be seen as taking sides when it comes to other peoples' rifts. Just in case it makes things awkward when the central figures make up, and the earlier lining up on one side is now an elephant in the room.

Those sorts of people lean towards being disinclined to cast their hat into the ring by stating they are of the same opinion. Which tends to drag the rate below a flat out 100%.

It's not impossible, but from the perspective of an outsider, if I take your posts as a "whole truth, all the truth, nothing but the unvarnished truth" account there is a growing heap of probability outliers stacking up around you.

Those are not odds I would gamble my relationship with my son on. My position and advice, cos I really don't want you in this club for any longer than you need to be, remains the same. Focus inwards not out in your quest for answers as to why your son could possibly be willing and able to cut off a healthy, loving relationship with his parents.

Millions upon millions of DILs all over the land struggle to get on with their in laws (and vice versa) . For cultural and personality clash reasons. But their well bonded (in the child/parent sense) husbands stay attached to their mother and father and in their lives. Despite any ructions and upsets along the way. Why did your son not ?

Until you are able, with radical internal honesty (which incidentally sucks like a bastard, cos it is hard and painful) , to get somewhere close to HIS version of that missing answer, be you an outlier amoung outliers, or something more typical of the pattern, you risk staying in this limbo long term.

Potentially for all the time you have left. I know people say time heals. But what they often fail to mention is that is also runs out. It goes faster than we anticipate. Days bleed into weeks, into months until you look up one day and notice the years have become decades. At the nine month mark you still have time to wheel this around. It hasn't become an engrained habit of being yet. It's still too soon for the rift to have solidified into a "better the devil you know" status while reconciliation has morphed into the distant, unknown alternative that is too scary for you to even contemplate.

You still have time, but not so much left that you can afford to waste it on well travelled ground, that has got you nowhere,

I repeat. I am the last person who wants you in this sad, broken hearted club. I am stuck in it forever because dead people don't rise. But you, in your far worse position of yearning for your missing child, don't have to be.

And as horrible and unfair as analysing the situation with a brand, new lens may feel, it sure as hell beats the alternative of going around and around in circles over the same old ground, until time runs out.

All his friends from school , uni and his 2 DS's say he has alienated himself from them.

Its very odd he should do this to a once very close family.

Indeed his friends from school and Uni keep in touch with us too and are all of the same opinion.

He has been isolated from his friends , family and career.

It is not just us who has these worries.

I find it strange that you profess to know all your son's uni friends and old school friends and are in that much contact with them. It's one hint to me that you might be over involved in his life.

People drop friends from their lives when they leave school or uni and are in busy demanding jobs. They drop friends when they move away. People will retain only friends they are most close to.

It could be just be communication issues - My Dh sent a message saying Its time to be friends again lets talk. with no response.

This sounds like a demand and not a request? I don't know how your husband phrased the message but it needs to be addressed not as a parent to a child but from one adult to another.

OP I'm not quite sure of the rights and wrongs of the estrangement, I'm sure there are serious wrongs on both sides but I definitely think you need to make more conciliatory efforts at putting things right if you want a relationship with your son.

As PP noted your husbands text sounds like a demand, not an apology. If I were you I would offer an unreserved apology, mentioning your previous attempts were lacking, and that you want to put things right with both of them and apologise to DIL whichever way he thought would be best. Maybe talk to some people from her cultural background and see what they suggest? Could you appeal to her parents and say you would like to host their extended family for wedding anniversary lunch?

Like I said, I'm sure there are things they should apologise for too, but I would for the sake of your happiness bite my tongue - never mention again the extended family turning up, the lies etc.

Having married into another culture I have some perspective on this, particularly the post-wedding meal.
In the Muslim culture, in my experience, it is polite to cater to as many as possible - it is actually a little rude to refuse to eat food when visiting! It is expected to over- cater. Helping yourself to food, e,g. cupcakes, would not be any issue at all. The typical way of hosting for white english people - cooking with only tiny leftovers, eat what you're given, don't express an opinion unless it's good - is not the norm in Asian culture. Dogs ARE considered unclean in Islam - to be honest I don't like them much myself, but in any case it's really shouldn't be seen as a rejection of YOU to ask that the dog be put outside when eating. Good hosting surely is about making guests comfortable and accomodating their wishes in any culture?
You were unprepared for that experience, no fault of yours, however tensions were already running high. This is all very complex, but I wonder if it's a situation where you, at possibly a subconscious level, feel that there should be more gratitude towards you for all that you have done. Which is certainly quite a lot, but I would say this: that is your role as a parent. Our job as parents is raising children to be independent adults, and I think this is where people are making their accusations that you are controlling. We so need let them make their own choices, where your son lives and works etc, and be proud and supportive.
Why are you NOT proud and supportive? This bit does sound like jealousy of the wife and her family. You liked her until you felt abandoned in favour of the other side. That hurts you a lot, I think. Again subconsciously, you maaybe tried to curry favour by buying a gift. At this point I can understand as I had a similar thing when I was setting up house -we borrowed money from my parents and when I was in a position to repay they refused to take it back - we had a blazing row BECAUSE I wanted to feel that I was a responsible adult standing on my own feet and not dependent on them. The furniture incident sounds like this. The row about it sounds horrible, to me it doesn't sound like the DIL behaved so very terribly but it all fell apart due to your existing feelings of hurt, betrayal, left out etc.
I would say this. You are feeling horrible. You don't want to be NC. This will not be ended by a climb-down or apology on either side. The only way this will ever end is to stop worrying about whose fault it is and how hurt you are, and to do this you absolutely need some counselling to help you work through those feelings. There is nothing demeaning about doing this. Your son will respect you for it. I know what I am saying is right, at least was for me, because when I was at risk of losing my own daughter in a very stressful period I did just that and by God it was such an eye opener.
After all, you say in your title you want your grief to end. BUT then you go on to list grievances, as if seeking affirmation of your pain, rather than asking "What on earth can I do to make this better?"...

One more point on the hypocrisy - you are completely right, it exists: but it is a very difficult line to negotiate for those of Asian heritage living in modern Britain. At this point, a lot of youngsters DO pick and choose which elements of their culture to respect and it's not easy for them to risk offending their elders, and that is where the lies come in as they don't want members of their family to judge them, or be hurt. For example, my partner had no truck whatsoever with the religion, never ever prayed, but his way of respecting his heritage was to not eat pork or drink alcohol. Seems that he's missed the point, I know, but the thing is it's his choice to make, not mine, so who am I to judge? I wouldn't thank anyone who was judgemental about my life choices, and so I don't think you had the right to be put out by guests asking for alcohol whether or not they are Muslim.

birdlady I just wanted to say, although I shared my experience with my mother on your thread, I'm not trying to say that you are the same as her - only to show a) how it can work that a parent is (apparently or actually, I have no idea what actually goes on in my mother's head) convinced that everything is lovely and the relationship is great, and b) how hard it can be to say no to help which is given with the expectation that it should be received with huge gratitude.

Look, maybe none of this applies to you, maybe your relationship with your son just went off a cliff and that had nothing to do with you and was all the fault of his wife and her family. Or maybe there has been something in the way you've treated him. If it were my son I know which I would be hoping for because you can't change his in-laws or his wife but you can change your own behaviour. Would it not be worth looking into?

Oops just thought of something else, maybe not helpful now but our wedding was a weird mishmash of a thing that was a million miles from a traditional English wedding - my parents had no involvement planning it and probably no idea of what was happening during it, but they were the picture of dignity and warmth throughout and I appreciated that so much from them. I can really picture how horrendous it would have been for me and how defensive I would have felt if they had been the slightest critical or touchy!

OP, you've elaborated a lot on the behaviours of your DIL's family, which admittedly doesn't sound that great but I find it curious that you say very little about what you actually said to your son at the time or in subsequent conversations. It seems as though you're mentally skirting right around your own actions and fixating on the behaviours of your DIL's family. It also appears that the DIL herself has done very little on the face of it to warrant all of the accusations you're levelling at her - I think once again you're unwilling to confront the truth of your son's choices and it's easier to blame her than admit that your son, rightly or wrongly, has chosen a different life from the one you'd envisaged for him.

My reading of the situation is that you liked exerting some level of control over their relationship, which was all well and good while it was kept secret from her family. However now you are struggling with that loss of control and the balance seems to have swung the other way in favour of your DIL's family. You accuse them of being intolerant but can you see how you also can be perceived similarly, in that you accepted your DIL up until when her culture started to assert itself in ways which made you uncomfortable?

My advice is to stop blaming your DIL and start focusing on your son. Accept his life choices for what they are, even if you don't agree with them. He clearly felt your disapproval which was why he didn't tell you what he was planning - you need to show him that you accept him and love him for who he is and not for following the life script you'd thought up for him.

Good luck, and hope you come to some kind of resolution.

I apologise in advance for wading in once again! We are all speculating but I do feel that if this was someone’s daughter who had been isolated by her husband and had no contact with her family, had given up her career and was working in the husband’s family’s business, the advice would be very different.

We are all speculating but I do feel that if this was someone’s daughter who had been isolated by her husband and had no contact with her family, had given up her career and was working in the husband’s family’s business, the advice would be very different.

This^

Sending someone a piece of furniture they have admired and bemoaned the fact that they can't afford it doesn't smack of control to me. It seems more like someone clutching at straws to try to stay in favour when they know they are being edged out.

It is really significant that the DS has given up everything, not just his relationship with his parents to demonstrate his commitment to his wife's family.

It definitely feels like there is a level of coercive control going on her, maybe from the DIL and maybe from her parents.

OP, I'm really sorry to hear what's happened. Try to understand that your DS doesn't feel he has a choice. Stop telling him about this making you ill or how his behaviour is making you feel and just concentrate on making sure he knows that, whatever happens and however long it takes, he is always welcome back in your home.

Birdlady
The same as toomuchtooold I shared my childhood experience and upthread I was very clear that I was not saying you are the same as my mother. I think it is useful to read these posts to understand how parents can mess up their children. I know a lot of what my mother did to me was not meant maliciously. She failed to protect me against my brother for example because she was protecting her son against his father. Not that this is an excuse.

To reiterate, my opinion is that you have been over enthusiastic and over involved. There are threads upon threads of people complaining about over involved parents and in laws. I and many others have advised counselling and possible ways of handling the situation.

Then there is the after wedding party. A few people thought how the dils family acted would be acceptable in the Muslim culture has been confirmed by Twillow so it really is time to rethink how you view this incident. Especially as you actually want to get past this impasse.

I really think you should reread the thread. I think you should look more fully at the advice as you really haven’t acknowledged any of it so I wonder if it was a difficult read. To be clear this being advice past what you have already tried.

user1457917537
I do agree there is of course something amiss with the dils family. I think both sets of parents have exerted too much control over the couple. The dil has chosen her own family for her own self preservation. As a pp said, you marry a whole family when you marry into the Muslim faith. Ops son had no choice but to follow his wife. The push / pull from his parents and his in laws was possibly too much to bear.

My take as to why he failed to keep in contact with his friends is either because it reminded him of his old life or because marrying into a Muslim family means you have a bunch of ready made companions and friends. The family thus crowding the friends out.

I would possibly send them both a letter nearer Christmas. I would get it checked over by someone that is close to you both but is able to speak their mind and tell you truthfully whether the letter is polite, non-manipulative and not full of accusations or harking back to past grievances.

Apologies can be difficult to get right. I also think once it's done properly that is shouldn't need to be repeated countless times. Sometimes they just stir memories of things that should be left behind.

I would let them know good things that you have been doing recently, how others they know are getting along etc.

I think you were happy when she lived with you on your terms - and she obviously felt welcomed by you but then you disrespected her by not welcoming her family into your home. Asian weddings always include more than just immediate family - you should have sent your husband out for more food and bit your tongue.
After all they had been through to be together they expected you to be supportive - but you weren’t - you through a hissy fit - and doubtless you made them aware you weren’t comfortable at the wedding too.
Research and embrace her culture.
Sending furniture not a good idea.

I would make an effort with her family too