To think the army shouldn't be allowed to 'avertise' in schools?

[TheDevilWearsPrimark]

I was speaking to my aunt over the weekend she told me she was horrified to hear there had been an assembly run by the T.A at her local school.

Her 15 year old son was apparantly very excited about all they had said, and has apllied for his local cadets group.

I just can't help think that this smacks of desperation on the armies part to recruit children who otherwise feel they have little options, or simply don't really know what they want.

Those television adverts that make it all seem like a fun computer game are another step too far.

I assume you are joking here bringing up the flaklands as an example of just british military invasion!?

bu to do it in school? to vulnerable children. without parental consent.

and be dishonest about it too.

like its a big adventure

Not at all. The Falklands War was very important. There is no one view in the UK and some people seal themselves so much off from normal people that they think everyone is pacifist or anti nuclear weapons or whatever.

(On Scotland news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6739007.stm worst health etc it was announced today)

Yes, the Army Recruitment man as the child-catcher.

"lollies, sweeties, ice cream, alllll freee today!"

Don't think it works quite like that.

This is nothing new. The Forces recruited in schools when I was at school - and that wasn't yesterday! No one has to join up and at least nowadays recruits don't have to sign away nine yrs of their life at the age of 16/18.

Xenia if you have nothing to say don't say it.
Why all these attacks on Scotland? do you want us to declare war on them? Has a scottish hedge fund manager sent you a nasty email?

well suebaroo if your child came home al enamoured with the forces life - that being outdoor persuits. rather than the participation in wars.

rock climbing - rather than patriotism
quad biking rather than truth justice and the liberation of the free world from the terrors as defined by the partic govt of the day.

i think you would find the processes sickening. that the army recruits in schools is repulsive IMO.

the careers advisor presumably ?? would say the pros and cons of any job.

Army recruitment is a lecture about how utterly fabbo it is.

xenia rarely contributes to the "actual" discussion point i find

Sorry, Primark, but I profoundly disagree with you. In fact, you're making me quite angry at the moment.

There are women on here with families in the armed forces. I'm proud of them, very proud of them.

Agree with DWP and custy

Good quote from the article linked to earlier:

"At present, it appears that the armed forces are getting preferential treatment in terms of access to schoolchildren, some as young as 14, to the detriment of other public services and business career opportunities. That cannot be right."

This is the issue which was voted on, not whether or not we should have an army, nor whether children should consider joining up as a career option.

Xenia, FYI, this was a vote taken by the largest teaching union in Scotland. It was not 'Scottish teachers' across the board. Yes, I would imagine that a disproportionate number of this union's members will be left-wing and probably pacifist too - it is the furthest left of the teaching unions in Scotland.

BTW I'm Scottish and I heartily agree with Xenia about separatism for Scotland - if we were separate, we would not have gone to war in Iraq.

Suedonim, you are missing the point. The fact is that recruitment drives are increasing, for obvious reasons,.
The governemnt are clever, they spend a lot of money on this, and it is targeted, at deprived areas where the children leap up to it, and their parents are just pleased they actaually want to do something. This is not a good thing. More should be invested in young apprenticeships, more hands on training and local groups.

Xenia, I'm not sure what your point is in linking to the Scotland story - "Worst performing small country in Europe" - do you actually have a point, or are you just anti-Scotland?

I would also like to ask the people whose families are in service at the moment. How 'proud' would you be if a family member was killed/ injured in service?

I have seen enough families who once this has happened to them turn to being anti war.

jofeb04, Sawbridgeworth...
The armed forces make a pitch to kids, in my experience they start off with "gee whizz, big toys, etc", but along the way you get told in no uncertain terms that this is not an easy option. Also in the cadet forces one is obliged to do Remembrance Day parades. You get to see a lot of people with bits missing, and the lists of dead on the monuments should get the message through.
I can describe in some detail, the effects of being in a burning Spitfire, you won't like it...

As for pacifism, the sentiment in Britain in the late 1930s was overwhelmingly against war, against anyone, for any reason. The USA was even more so.

Sadly DCs school has CCF. We always had utter contempt for kids who couldn't shoot straight, read maps whilst running, or even march better than scouts.

Interesting point DWP

I know a family whose son was killed in the Falklands - their whole view changed overnight and they are massively anti-Iraq war now

the army have always done this havent they ? i remember them coming to my school 18yrs ago . Why is joining the military such a bad thing ?

what about the peacekeeping and humanitarian roles our army undertakes ,or cant people see past a big shiny gun?

A friend of mine was killed in the Falklands, as it happens my headhunting work brought one of the people who fired Exocets at his ship in front of me.
"Says here you used to be a fighter pilot..."
I missed it as first because he'd changed nationality.

I'm inordinately proud of the way I didn't kill him where he stood, in fact I'm not sure he even noticed the pause, and what DW calls my projected insincere smile.

I've always assumed that joining the armed forces tended to be a family affair. If your dad or uncle was, you were more likely to join up etc. More likely than someone who had no military members in their family that is. Is this the case?

Although a supporter of the armed forces, I don't accept any ethical difference between government and military. Nor between civillians who allow an evil government and the government itself.
Saddam never gassed Kurds, Hitler killed not one single Jew, no Pope burned any witches and George Bush has never tortured anyone.
All of the above had plenty of willing helpers.

ratclare - huge shiny gun being shot at my kid - is a biggee for me. esp when it was misadvertisemtn that would have got him there.

i have a 'step' nephew same age as my son in the army. this isbecuase he was a pain in the arse to his mum, who kept him off school frequently to look after her other children becuase shes too fucking lazy.

now the kid has no life skills, no friends and no education becuase of his mum. and he is the one who will be shot at? sommats wrong.

personal anecdote aside.

its the misadvertisment that annoys me.

its the army going into schools for a boo yaa lecture on how great it is.

why no boo ya " come be a mechanic, its great" boo ya " come be a bricklayer the money is fab" boo ya boo ya boo ya

why not? if the army was considered as other professions are considered EQUALLY - on an equal basis. then i may be more open to it.

To divert from the Iraq theme which obviously has to come into this.

I have heard countless stories of the british army acting out of their remit and interfering where they should not, some involving my close family, and it is something close to my heart.

I do believe that there is too much of a lingering sense of empirisism, and that needs to be cut short. As soon as possible

littleapin, yes, he must believe in it, he could leve the army if he didn't, so he has essentuially gone to a war he believes in.

TheDevilWearsPrimark,
I found the terrorist remark to LLP awful.

I have friends who fight in the war, and I am so proud of them. In fact, my best mates dh is there now.