To think the army shouldn't be allowed to 'avertise' in schools?

[TheDevilWearsPrimark]

I was speaking to my aunt over the weekend she told me she was horrified to hear there had been an assembly run by the T.A at her local school.

Her 15 year old son was apparantly very excited about all they had said, and has apllied for his local cadets group.

I just can't help think that this smacks of desperation on the armies part to recruit children who otherwise feel they have little options, or simply don't really know what they want.

Those television adverts that make it all seem like a fun computer game are another step too far.

Yes, I think my opinion of recruiting in schools will always be positive, because of my families experience of the air force.

The air force gave my family many things, including my education.

I lived for some years with my dad checking under the car for bombs, not being out and about in his uniform and this on mainland Britain because of the Irish terror threat.

Had he gone to Iraq we would have been worried but we always knew what the real purpose of his job was, and the risks involved, and I think even the most disengaged teenager sat in an assembly would be aware of soldiers dying, as we were during the troubles.

(Apologies for delay - baby crying...)

sorry am still slightly baffled that by taking the vacant space of a local greengrocer that folded, the govt has its priorities screwed up.

I would much rather have a functioning army with enough recruits than a local greengrocer, but I hardly think that the govt is actviely trying to push local shops out of business so that the army can have recruiting offices. Perhaps its my army links. It makes me incredibly sad how much scorn people pour on the armed services as a career.

There was a whole load of the fighting forces cut about 10 years ago as part of the "peace dividend" so we now need to recruit again. No avoiding the fact that a lot of recruits are teenage boys (as with every other army in the world- except perhaps switzerland where I think they are middle aged banker )

Primark - I hope you thanked him for being prepared to risk his life to defend you if push came to shove. You don't think much of the forces it seems but thousands of men and women are prepared to die to defend you whether you "approve" of them or not.

Ok well made my views perfectly clear so off to do some peaceful non-gun related work .

This was inevitably going to descend into a debate on the war in Iraq, but lets leave that for another thread.

But I am really shocked that you would say that littlelapin.

Defend me from what!? At the monet the only part of the war that has affected the U.K is the bombings in London. But take a good hard look at what has happened to all those innocent familes in Iraq

don't think people have particularly been debating Iraq have they? or sis I miss it?

bit difficult to put an army together just when someone is threatening you, tends to be a good idea to keep one all the time. We have very short memories in this country - can you not ever concieve of a time that Britain might be at war again?

oh I see - you're going to debate Iraq.

must go - we are so far apart there's really no middle ground worth discussing.

my dh was an air cadet then RAF an airline pilot and now a corporate pilot to be fair its done him a great service and was enouraged by his school

I was a scout leader and even as an adult taught me a great many things
my friends son is about to join the RAF he ants to train as an engineer and is really excited about it

no you are not being unreasonable IMO & IME

cadets and such as an option for discipline and life skills, confidence imterpersonal skils etc should be advertised and approached as such.

the army did a thing in my sons school, and its always an option for those "less academically able"

he came home - the boy at age 15 announcing he was going into the army.

"they do rock climbing, quad biking ......" and on and on about outdoor persuit activity.

i said " yeah, and they send you to places where you will get shot......did they mention that"

changed his mind that did funnily enough.

and what about the RAF or the navy. why little minion thick as shit kids? akin to the army canvassing tot he poor communities in america if you ask me.

those with the fewest options get to go be shot at.

no one mentions officer training, snadhurst ...get good a-levels son.... then we will see.

no. they don't.

As the only one of 4 children not to join the CCF at school (it clashed with ballet!) I did join up at 26 following a decision that it would suit me as a career. My ex-CCF brothers and sister are now an airline pilot, a computer programmer and a midwife, so I don't see that joining the cadets had much impact on their career choices.

On the other hand I would like to point out that the armed forces do appeal to disadvantaged kids and particularly to those who have been unsuccessful at school because they are willing to put in the time and effort (and often one-to-one tuition) to teach these young men and women to read, write, do basic maths, manage their own bank accounts etc. Is it desireable that this is required? No, clearly not, but there are a lot of young people who encounter genuine support and care for the first time in their lives once they have joined up.

Also - all recruits are actually volunteers and those who join up under the age of 18 have an extended period during which they can withdraw from their contracts without incurring penalties once they have had a chance to see what they are getting into.

FCH but forgive me if I'm wrong, but do out taxes no pay for these people to reeducate children? If that is the best thing children get out of it, then wy isn't that money spent on educati ng children throuh the normal channels, or through parenting support groups?

It will be a sorry state if an army education ends up becoming 'the best'

lillelapin, but are they 'terrorists', if so, then your BIL is, and much more so. Perhaps they are just normal people trying to defend their families, after their country has been torn apart and many close to them have been needlessly killed!?

there isn't an advocate sent routinely into schools for the navy or RAF. MY dad was in the RAF. If my son was going to join the arned forced that is where i would direct him

i'll tell you why and await the onslaught of noooooo " how dare you"

there is an armed forces snobbery. excluding officers, the army is the bottom of the pile, thats why they recruit the way they do.

dd1 (9) has spoke about the army and I think it's great to have ambition, but her godfather (who she is very close to) was in the army until she was 3 and he is always telling her it isn't fun and trying to put her off.

DWP - good question. I have often thought that it is a very sad reflection on society that every year so very many functionally illiterate and inumerate young people are produced by the state education system, but since they are I don't think they can be blamed for taking a career option where they will be supported and trained, and I don't think it is reasonable to criticise the armed forces for taking them on and often helping them make something of themselves. I also can't see why there is an issue with recruiting in schools. Recruits under 18 require paerental permission to join, and recruits over 18 are presumeably old enough to decide for themselves.

yep, you are being unreasonable.
I am a pacifist from a long line of conscies btw.
you can't blame the army for the current war in Iraq.
plus Iraq is clearly not the only place the British army is currently fighting.
the British army has been responsible for helping some pretty just causes you know.
to object to the armed forces per se because of one particular war is a little simplistic.
what about the FAlklands?
what about Kosovo? who do you think actually makes up the UN peacekeeping forces?

TDWP - really, I think calling ll's BIL a "terrorist" is really very offensive, very offensive indeed.
he most certainly is nothing of the kind. what an outrageous suggestion.

I think you are right about armed forces snobbery, Custy.

I was once on an RAF flight to Croatia. Most amused to see how the handsome RAF crew put their pinnies on and turned into trolley dollies once we'd taken off. My companions also showed me how you can spot a Guards officer out of uniform (red jeans).

recognising that the education system fails some - lots of children is not a good enough reason to recruit them in this manner IMO.

quite frankly i dont think anone should be allowed in the army until they are at least 21.

army recruits more because they need more people - Army personnel 110,000 Navy and Airforce about 40,000 each.