To think the army shouldn't be allowed to 'avertise' in schools?

[TheDevilWearsPrimark]

I was speaking to my aunt over the weekend she told me she was horrified to hear there had been an assembly run by the T.A at her local school.

Her 15 year old son was apparantly very excited about all they had said, and has apllied for his local cadets group.

I just can't help think that this smacks of desperation on the armies part to recruit children who otherwise feel they have little options, or simply don't really know what they want.

Those television adverts that make it all seem like a fun computer game are another step too far.

Love it, DevilWearsPrimark. And nearly blind from computer games.

But hed have done it blu, and did in fact spend time in Ireland (which was grim).

I think where the forces are going wrong, (and the solution is more recruitment!!) is that people go on non stop tours - bosnia then ireland, then bosnia again, then afghanistan. They get little opportunity to return to UK, and get fed up. They used to play carrot and stick when posting recruits, so for my dad he had a really grim 5 years in the very north of scotland in the 1970s and then cornwall, before landing Oz.

TA is something that kids can do now. They cant go nursing for an hour once a week. Er, can they?

I think you are being unreasonable. We had a number of differect career talks when I was at school.

Agree with Blu, you can't ban an entirely legal career option (although given the illegal invasion of Iraq, joining the army might involved you in illegality - look at the reports that troops were ordered to ignore the Geneva Convention on treatment of prisoners, for e.g.). But I do think it is cynical to target children who may have little understanding of what is really involved.

NKF, think it was Not the Nine O'clock News who did a spoof - something like 'join the army, see the world, meet interesting people, then shoot them'.

TA people shouldn't rely on 'we'll only ever be asked to volunteer', btw. If we had a big war, I bet they'd be called up. Especially as the forces are so short-staffed.

PinkVeto: I'm not saying he wouldn't. But it is the derring-do that gets advertised, not the main military purpose of the army, and not grim stints in NI. It's a bit misleading. IMO.

Pinkveto - and would you have the same opinion had he?

re TA - see my post below about DS's consultant who was called up and spent 6 months in Iraq.

pinkveto - my ex saw service in n ireland and Bosnia and saw some difficult things but still feels it was a fqantastic opportunity and believes that he was serving his country (obviously an old-fashioned beleive amongst some there )

Dont' understand your argument about the local grocer, primark??? I beleive believe that all essential services (including nursing) should be allowed equal time in schools on careers talks.

I was in the air cadets, and loved it. I met some wonderful people who I am still good friends with, went to some wonderful places, and tbh, I can't see why it is such a big problem having the rmy in schools for information!

I think it's fine for people to make a real choice, and understand what they are letting themselves in for, plusses as well as minusses. I'm just not sure the recruitment images I see emphasise that.

I mean if our local grocer is forced out by the same landlord the governemt is clearly paying for an army recruitment office then they have thir priorities seriously screwed in what they should be focusing ion, and spending money on.

As for not being forced into war by joining the TA, I think a lot of people are coaxed to further thir career wtithin the army from joining the TA and no wonder, so it is unfair to put children into such an envirnonment.

I think at the moment all the CCF people who thought it was a jolly are coming down to earth realising it can mean real action and they might die and I think they don't always get a choice actually now. But they should have always realised that.

I would like to see more employers in schools and children told about the huge range of careers that they are out there which they often aren't aware of. I wasn't very popular when I bought 2 children careers books in their Christmas stocking one year but I thought it was useful.

I was an Air Cadet, and TBH it did make me consider being a pilot, but I was that sort of kid anyway, as were most of the rest.
Recall that Scouts were also specifically set up to be militaristic.
The difference is a bit more discipline, and of course guns.

It's a very badly paid job, and this country treats their families and former soldiers like shit. When the army was putting out fires during the strike, the fire brigades got a lot of interest from squaddies who saw far fewer hours, a decent pension and a lot bigger pay.

Any, yes, it is the case that the Army has always taken in those who career options are thin. It is one of the few employers with a positive view to those with a criminal record. I recall that the tabloids had some fun a few years back about the fact that policy implied that a murderer would be allowed to kill for his country.

And yes it is true that many turn wasted lives to the good. Others don't and it's long been the case that the largest single group of adults living on the street have been former soldiers. Indeed the laws on vagrancy were specifically set up to deal with demobbed squaddies.

The most recent TV adverts are surprisingly honest about the work, showing the stress of urban patrols in Iraq.
However they don't show the fact that your wife and kids will often be housed in 3rd world accommodation often infested with vermin.

Cadet forces do allow young adults to make rational decisions about that career option. Most decline it of course, but it's better for everyone if based upon knowledge.

but Blu - there are lots of jobs which are advertised as being better than they actually are.

Caring - help elderly people lead longer, happier lives, blah blah blah

Reality - clean up sht and pss and get treated like poo........

Teaching - work with amazing young people eager to learn about the world

Reality - lots of paperwork, badly behaved children, parents criticising etc etc etc

..............

and they won't be too fat in 5-10 yrs time if they do army cadets (or simialr) my nieces did a hundred km walk with them last year over 3 days

A friend of mine at school joined the r.a.f cadets aged 14. We lost touch after A Levels. I recently saw him on friends reunited saying 'I now fly fast pointy things around the world, shoot down terrorists'

You cannot imagine how horrified I was to see that, I had forgotten actually, until this discussion today.

Hi Blu, thanks for the reply,
we were always given a choice...possibly because people did volunteer, they (the TA) never needed to point fingers and demand. Given the choice, if they had no volunteers, they might have to force someone against their will.

(hijack alert)
DominiConnor, which cadet group were you with??

TheDevilWearsPrimark,
A number of my old frieds now fly for the raf, and yea, I worry, but I am also extremely proud of them all

My school discouraged me from going into the Air Force. I wish I'd never listened.

When we had the Army and Navy in to talk to us at school, we were not allowed to put questions to them directly - the headmaster vetted them... hence no tricky questions about defence spending, etc. I don't know why. I'm sure they guys could have done a good job of answering them.

Many commerical airline pilots are ex-military - it's how they came by their training and air time, which could be pretty expensive otherwise.