To think the army shouldn't be allowed to 'avertise' in schools?

[TheDevilWearsPrimark]

I was speaking to my aunt over the weekend she told me she was horrified to hear there had been an assembly run by the T.A at her local school.

Her 15 year old son was apparantly very excited about all they had said, and has apllied for his local cadets group.

I just can't help think that this smacks of desperation on the armies part to recruit children who otherwise feel they have little options, or simply don't really know what they want.

Those television adverts that make it all seem like a fun computer game are another step too far.

If my son told me he wanted to join the local cadets, be it T.A. or A.T.C., I wouldn't have a problem with it, no. By the time he was old enough for it to be an option, he wouldn't be a wide-eyed innocent sucked in with the promise of quad-biking and a really natty uniform.

Army recruitment is no more deceptive than any other recruiting organization. If your kids really and truly don't know that they might die if they sign up, I'm not sure they are clever enough to get through the interview process.
Crikey, if some of the people posting anti-armed forces posts on here have kids who think of the army as anything other than a death-trap for thickies, I'll be surprised.

"Terrorism is a term used to describe violence or the perception or threat of imminent violence. Terrorism expert Walter Laqueur, in 1999, counted over 100 definitions and concluded that the "only general characteristic generally agreed upon is that terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence"."

From wikipedia. I think that anyone fighting in Iraq couldn't argue that they are not doing just this!?

the army follows orders. if it questioned the government on its decisions we would fall into very dangerous territory.

its not as easy to say " erm am not goint to fight - i fdont like the whole guns bit"

becuase soldiers get housed. have debts to pay back to the army, may have a family and children to consider, a social circle -t eir whole life and ethos wound up in what is a relative small community.

i do seperate the armed forces from the politions.

the men and women in the armed forces die for the politions

TDWP - you are classing members of our world-class armed services as terrorists

And you would listen to man called Walter Lacquer ????

I think the age of targetting / recruitment is a real issue. We are the only country in the EU (and one of the few developed countries in the world) to still have "child soldiers" who are defined under international law as anyone under 18 attached to an armed unit. Unicef has urged the UK to stop recruitment of people under 18, and also to stop targetting them as part of recruitment campaigns. I feel it is extremely cynical and against the spirit if not actually the letter of International law to recruit within schools.

suebaroo - becuase SOOO many kids go into the army through informed choice? no choice, little choice maybe. failed my parents and an education system - its a sound good option.

i am not arguing against cadets, brownies guides sea scouts or any of the sort and made this view clear below.

The people of Britain have never voted to disband their armed forces. We never seem to have had even the mentality of the Swiss. The armed forces obey the orders they're given. It's the only way armies can work.

You mean imperialism ?
The British Army very rarely acts without political instructions. We are a democracy, and thus we are responsible for whatever acts you're unhappy with.
Must be said, that in nearly all armed actions abroad in the last 40 years, only the present Iraq one admits of the possibility that we were the bad guys, ambiguous even them
You could argue we should have hit the Serbs harder and sooner, or that our craven silence when France bullied New Zealand when bullied by France's nukes was deeply dishonourable. Not much we could have realistically done when the USA invaded Grenada. Taking out IRA bases in Eire and Boston was politically infeasible.

But all of these are sins of omission, TDWP what use of force didn't you approve of ?

The only fight I can think of where we were clearly in the wrong was the "Cod War". Which of course our nuclear armed navy lost to a bunch of courageous Icelanders armed with nothing more lethal than a harpoon.

i am in real awe that peoplethink its ok to to the recruit to the army thing to 14 and 15 year olds.

i am not saying it is not a valid career choice. but it isn't presented in its full light.

15 years old - to those of youwith younger children - thats most i presume, then youthink "oh at 15 , i was shaggin half the street, pised up on cider, had an 'e' went to the hacienda"

and look back mini adult stylee.

when your kid gets to 15 and older and its not yourself yourlooking at ut your child. your outlook maychange

Just like the last (contentious) discussion I got into on mumsnet, people are being too quick to jump and defend themselves without exploring the arguement.
And then those those who just don't read the thread and leap in and keep banging on without even wanting to hear about and consider other points of view.

Off-topic - but DominiConnor, your point about democracy doesn't really hold up in first-past-the-post electoral systems in which different votes effectively have different values. It is entirely possible to be a politically active citizen in the UK and not take any moral responsibility whatsoever for what the government does.

I don't think we're leaping on. My brother sister and I made career choices at age 15 which have stood us in good stead. It's not a bad age to choose particularly if you need to pick A levels for whatever you're going to do at university.

Domiconnor, well I don't think my attendance at 4 stop war parades has made any difference whatsoever.
might create good press, but it wohn't change government policy.
Plus how are we a democracy if Gordon Brown just gets shoesinto the PM post!?

That would be to suggest, Primark, that none of us have ever had this discussion before until you brought it up.

I think we all have an intellectual hinterland which is a little more extensive than that

I'm jumping on you because I disagree with you ... and you invited me to disagree with you!

Well yes, even if they wanted to go to Sandhurst I'd be putting them off because of the low pay and the fact in effect it screws up family life in a way I think is dreadful to live with. Who wants a partner who's away the whole time? Those are the real reasons against it - low pay and being parted from people you love.

I'm nearly with Xenia, it's the only way a civilised country can work. Argentina at the time of the Falklands war was run by a military Junta, which even by the low standard of Catholic countries of the time was seen as brutal. In the 1970s, nearly all Catholic countries were run by their armies, and they weren't nice, not even slightly.

Easily the most admirable living monarch is the King of Spain, who cunningly outwitted the dictator Franco and the Catholic church, and later personally faced down his army when it revolted.
Can you imagine that cowardly moron Charles standing up to a pack of angry Brownies ?

Sadly, it is the case that for most countries, for most of history, the army has been giving the orders, not taking them.

The USA is one of the few where that's hardly been the case at all.

littlelapin, thanks for the geography lesson.

The war in Iraq has become a ctach all for all the wester interfetence with the middle east, which , by the way, was all as unjust. Or did you miss that?

The sooner we invade large parts of the Middle East and put women in charge, give them the vote, the right to drive cars etc the better. Those countries are absolutely dreadful in how they treat women. Sadly the intervention in Iraq appears to have set women's rights back not forward in some places but that would suit Bush very well. Conservative US born again Christians want women in the kitchen keeping their mouths shut and their legs open as dutiful housewives ... except I suppose we have Ms Rice which rather spoils my sentence. I'll go and do some work.

TheDevilWearsPrimark,
Why didn't you just start a topic named "What do you think of Iraq", as this is obv the way this is going (or gone)!

I've never parped before, but
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