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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Will unfair or not?

178 replies

tryingtostickupforme · 23/09/2018 18:55

I will start by saying I have name changed as I don't want to offend members of my family
I have had 30 years of mental health problems, but am considered high functioning so am capable of making my own decisions. Problem is when I do I am repeatedly shouted down by my family and told 'don't be so stupid' (when I have an opinion which differs from theirs). As a result I am now not sure if I am being reasonable or not. Please help me see....
I was a wild child for many years and certainly the black sheep of the family. I guess teenage rebellion didn't calm down until I was in my 30's (mental health mixed in). I am for the most part stable, however have been conned by men- in 2 serious relationships I have been financially abused (low self esteem and conned by a narc. For which I am still undergoing therapy, so please be nice). I admit I have never been great with money and my parents have bailed me out before now.
My brother is a high flyer and has never stepped a foot out of line. He is their golden boy and it has been made clear they feel like that from childhood. I understand he has put up with a lot of crap caused by me over the years. I love him as my brother, but pretty sure the feeling I not mutual. He tolerates me, but would rather I wasn't around.
My parents are currently setting up a trust fund for their will. It is being set up for my brothers 2 children, my brother and I, so a 25% split each way.
Am I unreasonable to think this is unfair? I have no children so they cannot be included, but my niece and nephew get 50% of my parents inheritance. My brother would be an executor along with a lawyer, so I would have no say, and even if I did, it would be 3 votes to 1. If it came down to a request later, my brother could (and probably would) decline it. He stands to gain with effectively 75% share and a vested interest in his children first.
I know it is my parents money and they can do what they want with it, but I feel I am being seen off in this. Am I being unreasonable or just ungrateful?

OP posts:
Myimaginarycathasfleas · 23/09/2018 21:32

I do understand, OP. Your parents are putting your brother ‘in charge’ to make sure you don’t fritter away your inheritance. It’s rather controlling, although I’m sure well meant. This is what would bother me. Can you enlist the help of a trusted friend or relative to explain the potential consequences of this?

I think you just have to accept the bequest to your brother’s children. Your parents want to benefit their grandchildren directly. I think giving them equal shares with you and your brother is questionable but it’s their call.

SpikyCactus · 23/09/2018 21:47

Spiky her brother is NOT getting 75%
He totally is. With regard to inheritance, the number of grandkids is usually irrelevant. It’s the number of adult children that counts.

Eg when my gran died her estate was split 50/50 between my dad and his brother - both deceased - I got all of my dad’s share and my 3 cousins got 1/3 of their dad’s share each. So I got treble what my cousins got. Because it gets split by the number of children (2) not the number of grandchildren (4).

Yabbers · 23/09/2018 21:49

Personally, I think it’s incredibly distasteful and greedy to be thinking and debating your parents post-mortem finances before their death.
Yes, I agree. I couldn’t care less what my parents do with their money. It is their money and they can give it to the donkey sanctuary if they want to.

It’s rather controlling, although I’m sure well meant

How is it controlling for them not to give control of their finances to someone who has a proven track record of being financially conned? I’d do exactly the same.

MediocrePenguin · 23/09/2018 21:54

Blimey the reason they are probably keen on this split is because you are they type of person who is debating what to do with their money when they die on an Internet forum - that's so sad and distasteful.

I couldn't care less what my patents do with their money and how they split it between their kids/grandkids. I'd be too devastated to even have an interest.

You should be really ashamed of yourself.

Twotailed · 23/09/2018 21:55

I think it’s ok for your parents to leave money to their grandkids. That is a reasonable decision for them to make. It isn’t going to your brother - he gets the same as you. I think that’s fair (especially as they also helped you out financially before)

mostdays · 23/09/2018 22:04

I can see why that would upset you, tbh.

Taylor22 · 23/09/2018 22:09

It is not unfair.
There are four benefactors. 4 individuals who are unique and all equally loved by the people who've written this will.

The 4 people are each receiving the same amount. All fair and all equal.

toastedbeagle · 23/09/2018 22:11

My parents have a similar set up except I would have benefited more than my sibling as they had no kids.

To be honest though, I think the kids will need it, university fees etc are a lot more than they were when you were at that age , and it would give them a chance to not be saddled with massive amounts of debt.

Hopefully your parents and mine will spend it all before they die and we won't have to worry about it.

LifeInPlastic · 23/09/2018 22:17

Spiky he really isn’t. He has exactly the same share as the OP.
His kids also own 25% each. He cannot use their share/money for his benefit. He would be committing a crime if he did so. There is also an independent trustee to ensure he doesn’t abuse his position.
You say the number of grandkids is usually irrelevant. It’s not here - the OP’s parents have included them in their own right, deliberately and specifically. They may, or may not, then inherit further from the OP and the DB on their deaths. It is not at all the same as your situation where you and your cousins inherited your GP’s money via your parents, not directly from your GPs.
Depending on how the trust is worded, when the grandchildren reach adulthood, if all beneficiaries agree, the trust may be able to be dissolved and all parties take their share.
Actually OP, one qu you should definitely ask is what type of trust it is. Some trusts preclude you leaving your share to anyone else on your death. It may be that your parents have specifically set the trust up in this way so that you all avoid IHT and their intent is that you and you DB have some financial benefit during your lifetime, but that your DB’s children, who you would usually expect to survive you all, will inherit the entire residual estate on your and you DB’s deaths, free from IHT. The trust would also be protected from any care costs. It’s a very piece of inheritance planning, to be honest. To a certain degree it protects all of you, including your parents.

Strongmummy · 23/09/2018 22:26

@spiky I’m genuinely not following how he’s getting 75%!! He’s getting 25%. His kids are getting 50% between them. Not him. His kids. It’s not his money. He can’t touch it. IF he’s the trustee he will be allowed to say when they’re allowed access before they “come of age”.

CheerfulMuddler · 23/09/2018 22:27

There are two separate points here.

  1. Does your parents leaving money to their two grandchildren mean they're somehow leaving more money to your brother, because they're his family?
No, it doesn't. They're your family too, and you apparently love them enough to leave them all your money, so surely the same logic applies to you? You and your inheritors are getting 75%, just as your brother and his (presumed) inheritors are getting 75%. (And actually why should you assume your DB is going to leave his share to his children? Maybe he'll find God and leave it all to the Jehovah's Witnesses. Maybe he'll live to 110, spend the last forty years of his life in a care home with Alzheimer's, and won't have any left to leave. Maybe he'll outlive them.) Your parents want them to have the money when they come of age, and that's entirely reasonable. You come across really badly when you say you want more, especially when the sums you're actually getting already are life-changing already. Be grateful. Be generous. Be happy for your DNs. Let it go.
  1. Is your brother going to cheat you out of your share in order to spend it on himself and his children?
Honestly, OP, you've said yourself that you have anxiety and trust issues around men and money and I think you need to consider whether that's what's taking here. Has your brother ever stolen from anybody before? Do you have evidence that suggests he might be a thief? Or is this just touching all your red flags? However, I do understand why you have those red flags, based on your past, and I don't think it's unreasonable to (politely) ask your parents to recognise that putting your brother in charge of your money is going to seriously damage your relationship to him, not because of him personally, but because of your history of lovely-seeming men taking your money, and can they respect this by asking your 25% to be put in a separate fund managed by someone else.
SpikyCactus · 23/09/2018 22:33

I suppose I feel (probably like OP) that the estate should be split between the children not the grandchildren. As it would be if the person died intestate - in the absence of a will our legal system finds it fair that the kids should get 50/50 and the grandkids get nothing. Why should OP have less just because her brother chose to reproduce?

BunsOfAnarchy · 23/09/2018 22:37

Will is fair.
Sounds like the conditions surrounding how you spend your share are there because you have been vulnerable to financial abuse and (by your own admission) still are. Measures are in place to make sure no outside party benefits or takes advantage of your parents money.
HTH

LifeInPlastic · 23/09/2018 22:38

Er, Spiky you know that people have the right to leave their property as they like? Especially to their descendants. The OP’s parents, by her own admission, have helped her out a lot, financially, and given other expensive gifts to her brother. They have every right to leave their property to all their descendants, equally. It’s not like they are giving 50% to the brother and less to the OP. They are all getting the same.

Taylor22 · 23/09/2018 22:41

Why should OP have less just because her brother chose to reproduce?

Because the GP (who worked and earned this money) do have two grandchildren who they love and want to make it so that their money (that is theirs to do with as they please) benefits them in the event of their death.

AJPTaylor · 23/09/2018 22:46

Not unfair
They also do not want to see it handed over to con men or frittered away.
It sounds like they have had good legal advice.

Akanamali · 23/09/2018 22:49

Why should OP have less just because her brother chose to reproduce?

Because her parents wish to provide for their grandchildren as well as their children.

Akanamali · 23/09/2018 22:56

It sounds like the OP is getting what is a substantial figure. To then complain that it's unfair for the grandchildren to also get this is greedy and I'd expect my child to keep this opinion to themself. Especially if I'd helped supported financially in the past.

If you think your brother would be biased as a trustee you're free to speak to your parents about appointing a more neutral person.

CoughLaughFart · 24/09/2018 01:11

I suppose I feel (probably like OP) that the estate should be split between the children not the grandchildren. As it would be if the person died intestate - in the absence of a will our legal system finds it fair that the kids should get 50/50 and the grandkids get nothing. Why should OP have less just because her brother chose to reproduce?

But they won’t die intestate - that’s the whole point. They’ve decided what they want to do with their money and have taken the very sensible step of putting clear measures in place.

Haireverywhere · 24/09/2018 01:27

I see it as there are four individuals they wish to give their assets to and they don't want to see anything or anyone's life choices (including brother) prevent any of the four from receiving a share.

It's fair in the sense it's their money and it's what I would do but I would add your child on and split five ways too if things changed.

Fabricwitch · 24/09/2018 01:38

I think it's fair.
There are 4 individual relatives they want to leave their money to equally.
The grandchildren are not part of or property of their father.

trojanpony · 24/09/2018 06:10

Yabu its their choice and a fair split

in 2 serious relationships I have been financially abused (low self esteem and conned by a narc. For which I am still undergoing therapy, so please be nice). I admit I have never been great with money and my parents have bailed me out before now

maybe they spent the same on you and your brother but yours was a bail out and his car was probably a “made good” because they gave you cash.

Think about this from your parents perspective.

I think tinkobell is spot on in terms of context, and I’d say there’s a lot more to this story

stellabird · 24/09/2018 06:20

It's not helpful to dwell on what you read in other people's wills. Who knows what the future holds - by the time they both die, your parents money could be used up by aged care needs. There might be nothing left by then.

Tinkobell · 24/09/2018 06:27

I think having a neutral intermediary manage your fund is essential with your DB as an administrator to create some space between all parties OP. The fund sounds sizeable enough to offset the fees and ought to be invested to attract growth which you could live off rather than just whittling down and spending the lump sum. If you have no roof of your own you may well need a lump to pay for your own later care needs....nevermind cars and holidays. Be glad and pleased for what's been set up for you OP.....ask yourself if you could have sorted out a trust like that for yourself?

ferrier · 24/09/2018 07:36

When asking your parents about appointing a neutral, the way to put it is that it puts your brother/children and their relationship with you on an awkward footing if they turn down a request from you for funds. The family risks breaking down if there are disagreements over how the money should be spent and surely your parents won't want that?