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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Will unfair or not?

178 replies

tryingtostickupforme · 23/09/2018 18:55

I will start by saying I have name changed as I don't want to offend members of my family
I have had 30 years of mental health problems, but am considered high functioning so am capable of making my own decisions. Problem is when I do I am repeatedly shouted down by my family and told 'don't be so stupid' (when I have an opinion which differs from theirs). As a result I am now not sure if I am being reasonable or not. Please help me see....
I was a wild child for many years and certainly the black sheep of the family. I guess teenage rebellion didn't calm down until I was in my 30's (mental health mixed in). I am for the most part stable, however have been conned by men- in 2 serious relationships I have been financially abused (low self esteem and conned by a narc. For which I am still undergoing therapy, so please be nice). I admit I have never been great with money and my parents have bailed me out before now.
My brother is a high flyer and has never stepped a foot out of line. He is their golden boy and it has been made clear they feel like that from childhood. I understand he has put up with a lot of crap caused by me over the years. I love him as my brother, but pretty sure the feeling I not mutual. He tolerates me, but would rather I wasn't around.
My parents are currently setting up a trust fund for their will. It is being set up for my brothers 2 children, my brother and I, so a 25% split each way.
Am I unreasonable to think this is unfair? I have no children so they cannot be included, but my niece and nephew get 50% of my parents inheritance. My brother would be an executor along with a lawyer, so I would have no say, and even if I did, it would be 3 votes to 1. If it came down to a request later, my brother could (and probably would) decline it. He stands to gain with effectively 75% share and a vested interest in his children first.
I know it is my parents money and they can do what they want with it, but I feel I am being seen off in this. Am I being unreasonable or just ungrateful?

OP posts:
Fluffyunicorns · 23/09/2018 20:06

My parents set up a trust fund and I asked for my share to be split between me and my 2 children. They will need the money before I die and this avoids the chance of double inheritance tax. Also if I do marry again it ensures it goes to my children.
Is the 25% you are getting enough for you to live on - will only getting that cause you hardship or is the gain for your nephew and niece greater then any hardship you go through?
At least with a trust you are guaranteed something - if they kept the money it might all go on care fees before you even inherit.

eddielizzard · 23/09/2018 20:07

Yes, I think that's your solid argument - there's a conflict of interest in your brother being the trustee of your part of the trust. He could stop you spending it so that his children inherit, and therefore doesn't have your best interests at heart.

Tinkobell · 23/09/2018 20:07

The will and the management of the funds is probably being structured to avoid you being homeless in the future (so having money for rent and utilities) and having large assets against which you could obtain loans that you cannot afford to repay without selling up. That will be why. I'm sure your brother could do without the admin task of this but will be doing it to help your parents and avoid the parents having to pay a third party to do it.

Wallywobbles · 23/09/2018 20:09

I think I'd want neutral trustees rather than family. Would your parents consider that? My dad did that for us all.

Chewbecca · 23/09/2018 20:13

Well I can totally see where you coming from about the fairness. My initial expectation would be 50/50 to you and your brother.

However, wills don't have to be fair in this way. And what your parents are choosing does fall into the 'understandable' and 'reasonable' in my mind & I think you need to respect their choice to pass money to the youngest generation sooner, which does have some logic.

I think you need more details on the trust and how it would work. I don't understand the scenario you describe where the niece and nephew get your share, are you sure your DB will be able to reallocate your 25% between the recipients?

SassitudeandSparkle · 23/09/2018 20:15

You said your brother was the executor - that means the will, not the trust fund. Are you sure the money is going to be tied up in the fund and it's not merely a vehicle to minimise inheritance tax? What makes you think that you'll have to repeatedly ask the fund for money rather than it being given in one lump sum (although I can see why your parents would want the first option, as you admit you have had money issues in the past).

I do think you are being a little unreasonable, OP. Your brother is getting the same amount that you are. He doesn't have access to his children's money.

ianbealesonwheels · 23/09/2018 20:15

I actually think it makes sense to skip a generation in wills these days. So inheritance can be used to get on the housing ladder/pay for education rather than going to people in their 60s who are already 'ok'. I am inbetween these 2 generations though, so my opinion may change in time! I do understand your desire the will is fair though OP. Especially as you say you will be caring for your parents in their old age. Overall to me it seems like the will is fair though (even if it doesn't seem like it to you) and I hope you manage to rise above your feelings of jealousy

Cheekyblinders · 23/09/2018 20:17

I think I would feel aggrieved too... I wouldn’t feel it was fair if my parents split things equally between my sister me and our children as I have 2 and my sister only has one... I wouldn’t feel comfortable that me and my progeny got 3/5ths and my sister and hers only got 2/5ths. When my grandparents died everything was split between between the next generation evenly and only small bequests made to grandchildren (piece of jewellery or a small fixed sum... the same or equivalent for each). Is there any provision for future children?

cptartapp · 23/09/2018 20:17

I'd be miffed too OP. Your DB 'side' gets 75%, you get 25%. I would rather you both get 50/50 and if your DB want some to gift some to his DC then that's fine. FIL has put money (lots) into trust for the GC saying to DH that he and his DS will get the house. Unless he or MIL ends up in care then GC could be very well off and DH and his Sister end up with nothing! I get you.

Mymomsbetterthanyomom · 23/09/2018 20:23

There is obviously a very good reason why they chose to do their will the way they have.Period.

Original poster
tryingtostickupforme · 23/09/2018 20:26

Apologies for the word executor. All money is going into 1 trust. The trust will have 4 names- my brother, me, and both his children. My brother is the lead trustee who will make decisions with a lawyer.
I fully understand (and want) to be protected against any con men in the future. This is necessary. I have no argument regarding that.@ianbealesonwheels, I am not jealous. It is not a jealousy issue at all. It is my parents money and they can do with it as they wish. Nor do I want my niece and nephew to lose out in any way.
My point remains (and thank you to those who understand what I am trying to say) is that I do not feel protected as my brother does not have to agree to giving any of the 25%. It is a trust for 4 of us and anyone can access it, but I would have to have my brothers authority to do so. It is heavily weighted to his children so he doesn't have to allow me anything.
I am woring on it, but am vulnerable. This also means my brother could take advantage of this situation....
I will ask about further trustees, thank you Ferrier.

OP posts:
Seeingadistance · 23/09/2018 20:30

My grandfather did something similar. He and my grandmother had 4 children, 3 of whom each had 2 children. My uncle didn't have, and still doesn't have, any children. When my DGF died, my DGM inherited the bulk of his estate, the four children received, I think, a small amount, and each of the 6 grandchildren received a large cheque.

The childless uncle considered this to be greatly unfair and thought that he should have received the equivalent of what 2 grandchildren received.

Thing is, the grandchildren are people in own right. We are not our parents' property, we are not part of them. My DGF always talked about how he wanted to leave money to his grandchildren, and and he had taken out policies for each of us when we were born. The money we received was our money - not our parents' money.

The OP's parents have made arrangements in their will for 4 different people. The OP's brother is one person - not three people.

It seems fair to me.

Tinkobell · 23/09/2018 20:33

Unless there is a huge amount of money in this trust OP, I think in reality it's very unlikely that once your days are over there'll be anything left of your 25% to give to the niece and nephew. To drip feed you a subsidence amount to see through your days - assuming you live into your 80's would be amazing. Let's say he gave you £100 per week. That's £5200 per annum x 40 years = £208,000 min needed.

MacosieAsunter · 23/09/2018 20:33

I have worked hard all my life and if I thought my investments would go to con artist, then my will would also be water tight to prevent that child from (a) further abuse (b) making further bad decisions.

however have been conned by men- in 2 serious relationships I have been financially abused ...I admit I have never been great with money and my parents have bailed me out before now.

RandomMess · 23/09/2018 20:36

I think you need to ask your parents more about how the trust will work and ask if your share could go into a separate trust.

I get that it's not about "only" getting 25% but your concern that you may actually get nothing from it.

Of course your parents may end up spending it all on care in their old age anyway...

SpikyCactus · 23/09/2018 20:38

Totally unfair. Your brother is getting 75% and you’re getting 25%. As you said, you’re obviously the black sheep and your parents don’t see you as equal to your brother. Perhaps they don’t want to give you too much as they’re concerned you'll squander it or be conned as you have in the past?

Fragolino · 23/09/2018 20:42

Just say your confused and would like clarity on now the trust will work.
Will you have to go through your brother etc.

Original poster
tryingtostickupforme · 23/09/2018 20:42

@tinkobell, there is significantly more than that figure.

The whole point is that it is set up with my agreement so that it is ME who will get access to this trust and that no man could. I have even said IF I ever get married (highly unlikely due to my trust in men now) that I would have a prenup so that my parents money does not go to the husband. I am trying to protect their money as well as myself.....This isn't so I can spend it willy nilly and is not/will never be the intention.
The fact remains I am not protected by this set up

OP posts:
iamyourequal · 23/09/2018 20:43

Perhaps you can ask for the solicitor to have more say than your brother in how you get your 25%? You say you were a wild child, pick lousy abusive men and didn’t calm down until your 30s. Do you have addictions/substance abuse in your past? Perhaps your parents are just trying to protect you from yourself. I get the impression they maybe just trust your DB to look after your interests better than they know you would manage.

PoppyFleur · 23/09/2018 20:48

I understand the upset Trying but I’m guessing a tax accountant/family lawyer has advised your parents to set up a family trust to minimise inheritance tax. It is the most efficient way of ensuring family benefit and HMRC doesn’t. Try not to take it personally.

Banana8080 · 23/09/2018 20:51

I’d say 50:50 is only fair way

LifeInPlastic · 23/09/2018 21:03

Spiky her brother is NOT getting 75%. It sounds like it’s a trust split 4 ways with 4 beneficiaries getting a 25% share each. The OP’s D.B. on,y has one 25% share. His children have shares in their own right.

The OP’s parents, it sounds to me, have been advised well in setting this up. The D.B. is not the sole trustee, there is another independent trustee. I suspect there are provisions in place that both trustees need to agree on dispersal - they had added this deliberately.

If they want to leave money to ALL their descendants, equally, this is absolutely fair.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/09/2018 21:08

it is ME who will get access to this trust and that no man could

Not sure how that would stop another conman pressuring you to access the money and then hand it over to him?

And prenups aren't set in stone in the UK. Courts will take them into account, but if a future husband claimed poverty he could still be entitled to some of the money

user1469565439 · 23/09/2018 21:18

A trust can be a brilliant tax efficient method. You refer to a future retirement apt, if there are sufficient funds it could be that the trust buys this retirement apt and it remains the property of the trust but you benefit from living in it.

The same could apply to property purchased by the trust and lived in by the other trustees.

As a previous poster suggests, speak to an inheritance tax adviser and seek out the positives in this scenario and you may see this is a fair method of distributing wealth among your family, which may work well for you and all beneficiaries.

Tinkobell · 23/09/2018 21:21

OP - nobody ever intends to blow money or get ripped off. It sounds like youve learned a great deal from having got into debt and I truly admire your hard work and ability to be fully self suffiencient. We have a family member who is high functioning ASD and has run up numerous debts over the years and borrowed against gifted assets. It has brought shock and misery to the family and actually caused clinical depression amongst some of our family. We worry that one day our relative may actually end up homeless. The lack of empathy our family member has means they don't really understand the pain it's caused. I say this not to emotionally burden you, but to make you realise that high functioning financial incompetence is really tough on families and sends ripples far and wide.