To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

[Angryresister]

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

P3onyPenny
Oh I'm getting it thanks.

Are you?

The problem as I see it is that girls (and parents) join as it is a single sex environment. It has long been known that having boys in a all female/women environment changes the dynamic.

You can call trans girls girls all you like but it doesn't biologically make it so.

possibility of teenage boys identifying as girls to commit sexual harassment

I don't think there has been 'a lot of talk' about this at all

There may have been the odd comment...but not lots

One is too many.

Why are there so many children now deciding that they are in the 'wrong body' and having this idea validated and in some instances having medical intervention? At an age when they can't legally vote, drink, join the army, have sex, get married...

This may be inflammatory, but needs saying. If someone is Transgender but not fully transitioned, then personally, I believe that their sex at Birth should be noted when dealing with vulnerable children and others of a similar nature.

We should all know whom is truly responsible for our child's welfare in such situations.

Not at Rainbow age you can't, there must be at least 2 adults regardless of the number of girls.

These 2 adults could now be male.

NicolaHare, nobody is talking about the Evil Transgender Sex Pest. It's interesting how so many people who refuse to accept that there could be any problem resulting from this change of policy attempt to sum it up with a very crude, unnuanced misrepresentation of what concerned women are saying.

Most people are not violent. Most people are not sex offenders. Some are. Almost all of them are biologically male. It would be very remarkable if the fact of being transgender guaranteed that that person would never be violent or a sex offender, and indeed it doesn't, as a constant stream of news stories makes clear. transcrimeuk.com/ Trans people aren't committing crimes at a higher rate than the rest of the population, but they are committing crimes, as is entirely to be expected.

Transactivists tend to react to these by saying the offenders were clearly not really trans. Well, I'm afraid you can't have it both ways.

Either transgender people do sometimes commit crimes and should be subject to exactly the same safeguarding measures as everyone else.

Or some devious people (perhaps particularly people with criminal tendencies) will exploit any loophole to get access to what they want.

Self-identification as transgender with no gatekeeping at all is quite obviously wide open to abuse by such people.

Teenage boys( and I have two) would rather eat their own hair than dress up as a girl and live the life of a girl to get into the pants of girls. It could happen anywhere( Scouts included)and quite clearly doesn't

Wow , what a transphobic and misogynistic comment . What on earth does it mean to dress as a girl and live the life of a Girl? Please tell me and explain why its so loathesome ?

Don’t you know that trans girls already ARE girls ? They don’t need to do anything to be themselves . They just say “ i am a girl “.

This may be inflammatory, but needs saying. If someone is Transgender but not fully transitioned, then personally, I believe that their sex at Birth should be noted when dealing with vulnerable children and others of a similar nature

A - their birth sex IS their sex - forever. It may be their Gender that has changed but that is mainly clothes and a name. Some have plastic surgery, most do not.
B - Dealing with vulnerable children and others of a similar nature - erm, I am not vulnerable and no way do I want to be MADE vulnerable, and no way do I want non-vulnerable kids MADE vulnerable by being targeted by men pretending to be women in order to access us/them. People become vulnerable through many means, but quite often as a result of being abused, we should not put them or anyone else in the firing line just because a few men say some words.

I find it interesting the arguments against safeguarding in this instance seem to boil down to the same argument as namalt in mn threads about rape, child abuse and sexual assault. The tone, the insistence it’s essentially hysterical to protect women and girls from an exaggerated predators, that most individuals are lovely and you personally have not met a bad one so women and girls are lying or being terribly unfair. The trans aspect works to hide the misogyny behind a thin veneer of wokeness.

If you genuinely believe you think trans women are women/ trans girls are girls you would speak about them in the same, dismissive way you speak about women and girls. But you don’t, so you can’t be seeing them that way can you?

Living the life of a girl - well, that's very simple. You grow your hair long, you wear make-up and you start wearing skirts or dresses. Being a man - equally simple. You have short hair and wear a suit. Couldn't be simpler.

Not loathsome but mortifying if you are not trans or female.Going by the homophobic bullying one of my sons received it is quite clear to me that your average teenage boy will as much as they can to appear alpha male in order to avoid it.There are plenty or ways teenage boys can take advantage of girls dressing up as a girl and infiltrating guides is highly unlikely.

There are plenty or ways teenage boys can take advantage of girls dressing up as a girl and infiltrating guides is highly unlikely.

You will never know though. That is the point.

Because they have not risk assessed, will not risk assess and see NO safeguarding issues with this.

If they just simply admitted boys and risk assessed and safeguarded it would be a different story.

ALL safeguarding and guidance says that boys and girls don't share rooms after a certain age; why are you willing to take a boy's say so that they are now a girl, and completely forget all the official guidance?

Being trans does not equal predator. Being a boy does not equal predator.

Phrases like loathesome and mortifying are part of the reason why children feel unable to access stereotypical boys/girls stuff without coming out at trans

What about girls rights to single sex spaces where they undress, shower or sleep - especially when GGs states it is a female led organisation for girls.

And did you not read their statement?85% of Guides don’t want discrimination.

They look and safe guide situations on an individual basis.

I am a parent, it’s sounds spot on and very reassuring.

I'll bet that more than 85% of mumsnetters dont want discrimination either, the vast vast majority of those on this thread

That has nothing to do with safeguarding

While entertaining hypotheticals is an important part of developing and critiquing safeguards, threads like this seem like exercises in entertaining the nightmare of the Evil Trangender Sex Pest to allow transphobic sentiments to be expressed with deniability, rather than a genuinely productive conversation.

If you think it seems that way, I'm afraid that says more about you than it does about people identifying the clear safeguarding risks this policy poses.

It is mortifying when you’re bullied for not not fitting the stereotype.You may not like it but boys don’t like being called names and mocked or being beaten up for not fitting in ie teenage boys dressing up as a girl and going to Guides to take addvantage of girls on a once a year camp is highly unlikely.

Are lesbian girls and leaders predators and an equal risk?Are you saying trans should be banned from anywhere they may come into contact with teenage girls who are as a group are in need of protection that goes above and beyond common sense.

It’s back to what a PP said. The people arguing against safeguarding either

1. Don’t understand the need for it or

1. Do understand the need but have a vested interest in dismantling safeguards or

1. Do undetand the risks to girls and women but consider that some collateral damage is worth it. Like the hundreds of girls raped in school each year - its worth it so boys can do what they like.

Some of the anti- safeguarding posters on this these claim they are parents. I wonder which group they are in .

Thats not what you said originally

And there is nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about if you are being bullied

Its the bully who should be ashamed and embarrassed!

Are you saying trans should be banned from anywhere they may come into contact with teenage girls

The majority of the thread is about safeguarding

It is not about banning trans from being in contact with teenage girls...you also seem to be forgetting about transboys? Who are being managed out of a supposedly single sex organisation

You clearly know nothing about what it feels like to be bullied or a teenage boy.

And as for which group my daughter is in?

I do know what a teenage boy feels like when he is being bullied

And i am just saying that he shouldnt feel ashamed if someone is bullying him

Thats what mortifying means

The bully should be ashamed...not the victim who hasnt done anything