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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

821 replies

Angryresister · 23/09/2018 06:32

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

OP posts:
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tillytop · 25/09/2018 15:54

I quite like the new word for posters who appear not to care about risks or child protection. childsrightsphobia

tillytop · 25/09/2018 16:02

I've been patiently waiting for someone to answer why do some parents not let teen boys sleep in the same room as their DD's at home, yet are ok with a teen boy (who thinks he's a girl) to sleep next to DD's at Guides?

AsAProfessionalFekko · 25/09/2018 16:08

Because they are girls....ohhh.

IAmLurkacus · 25/09/2018 16:44

Wil I get deleted for pointing out posters are ‘childsrightsphobic’ ? I’ve been deleted for pointing out posters are homophobic and misogynistic Hmm

tillytop · 25/09/2018 17:00

Next year there'll be threads popping up My DD got pregnant on a GG trip. I'm not the type of person to be saying told you so, but sorry, I will be thinking it!

AsAProfessionalFekko · 25/09/2018 17:30

Even worse when it's 'my dd got pregnant on a GG trip in an-all girl tent' ('Jesus' springs to mind...)

tillytop · 25/09/2018 18:27

I know this is serious but I couldn't help but laugh at that Fekko Grin Grin

ebeneezergood · 25/09/2018 18:35

This might help.....

A message to all our members, parents and carers
Our response to the media attention to our Equality and Diversity policy
In the last few days you may have seen that Girlguiding’s Equality and Diversity policy has been criticised in the media, with accusations that our inclusion of trans members puts girls at risk. It does not.

The safety, wellbeing and happiness of our members is at the heart of everything we do in Girlguiding and has been for over 100 years.

We are therefore writing to all our members and parents of our young members to set the record straight. Keeping girls, young women and our adult volunteers safe is our number one priority. We’re really proud of our robust safeguarding procedures which apply to everyone and underpin everything volunteers and girls do in guiding. We are deeply saddened that anyone would suggest that we would knowingly put our young members at risk.

As an organisation we pride ourselves on caring for every individual. Simply being transgender does not make someone more of a safeguarding risk than any other person.

Every individual and group is different, so we train and support our volunteers to assess every situation - balancing the needs of all our members, both girls and adults, so everyone can enjoy their guiding experience in a way they feel comfortable with. Our universal policies ensure that all volunteers are required to safeguard and assess risk for all activities on a case by case basis to comply with those policies and procedures.

We’ve been responding directly to practical questions from volunteers and parents about how we can balance the needs of all our members, and we are always happy to offer bespoke support to any leader or parent, including on transgender inclusion.

It is important to us that we listen to girls and young women, 86% of whom have told us, through the Girls’ Attitudes Survey, that they do not think people should be discriminated against because they are transgender.

Girlguiding’s policies, procedures and Volunteer Code of Conduct ensure that all our volunteers understand their roles and responsibilities to treat others with respect, keep everyone safe, and deliver great experiences for girls and young women.

We therefore take breaches of our policies, procedures and Volunteer Code of Conduct very seriously.

Following a number of complaints about two individuals, an independent investigation concluded that both had breached our Volunteer Code of Conduct and our Social Media policy because they did not, and indicated that they were not willing to, follow Girlguiding’s Equality and Diversity policy and actively encouraged others to do the same. We are always willing to listen to feedback about our policies, and remain open to reviewing them wherever necessary.

We will always investigate any breaches of our Volunteer Code of Conduct and related policies. While withdrawal of membership is a last resort for us, our policies are designed to protect our girls and young women. Refusing to comply with our policies is unacceptable. Unfortunately, the circumstances meant that we had no choice but to withdraw these individuals’ membership. This decision was not based on their personal views, but on the way they conducted themselves.

We have been asked to provide further details on these specific disciplinary cases but it would be inappropriate to comment further as the individuals in question have a right to appeal.

We’ve tried to avoid being drawn into the highly politicised, emotive and often aggressive debate around transgender inclusion. Girlguiding is not a transgender campaign group, we are a young people’s organisation. Our focus has been, and will remain, providing our young members with opportunities to learn, grow and discover in a fun, safe, inclusive and legally compliant way.

We have developed our policy in line with legal advice and, in the case of our guidance around transgender members, organisations with experience of supporting transgender children and young people. Contrary to claims made on social media we do not make policy based on comments from individuals or pressure groups.

We know that this is a new and complex area of law and we will continue to review our policies against the latest advice and guidance. Under the General Data Protection Regulation 2018 the sharing of personal data of children is afforded greater protection, so we take great care to uphold confidentiality. Any information about an individual’s transgender history is treated in line with the Data Protection Act 2018/General Data Protection Regulation 2018 (GDPR) and Girlguiding’s Data Protection policy.

It hasn’t been easy to hear criticism of our organisation and of the wider Girlguiding family especially when much of it is inaccurate, aggressive and counter to the values we hold dear.

We are incredibly proud of our volunteers and the young people in our movement who sensitively and positively support diversity of all kinds, including our transgender members, as part of their groups. We would like to thank each and every one of our 109,000 volunteers who, week in and week out, offer a safe space for girls and young women to have fun, learn new skills, explore their own identity and beliefs, and to be proud of who they are.

Amidst all the noise we try to remain focused on the children and young people that we support. We call ourselves a movement because we change with the times, whilst staying focused on our core values and purpose, and we will continue to do just that.
Amanda Medler
Chief Guide
Ruth Marvel
Acting Chief Executive

titchy · 25/09/2018 18:41

including our transgender members, as part of their groups

As long as they're trans-girls. Female guides identifying as trans are managed out.

I wish they'd clarify they mean transgirls.

tillytop · 25/09/2018 19:20

Thanks for that ebeneezergood. In my opinion the Chief Guide and Acting Chief Executive are suffering from delusion. They're opening a new can of worms here.

moimichme · 25/09/2018 21:11

So annoying that they can't even stick to saying 'girls' - it's 'young people' instead. They should really stop pretending to be single sex. They're not. Angry

Writersblock2 · 25/09/2018 21:41

Well done for getting this on AINU, OP. There are massive safeguarding issues with self-ID and frankly, if women want any rights left they need to speak out loudly and often about this!

drspouse · 25/09/2018 21:57

"Young people" is what they say in Scouting.

BlackeyedSusan · 25/09/2018 22:46

male bodied children should not be sharing with female bodied children. so many issues. privacy, dignity gone, embarressment instead. (bad enough changing in front of girls, nevermind boys)

that is enough without the risk of piss taking boys who try it onfor the laughs.

Angryresister · 25/09/2018 22:59

I can see I should have framed the question as does my daughter have the right to spend time with only people of her own sex or be looked after by people of her sex? If the answer is no, who is making these rules and why? Very few people here seem to think that girls are getting fair treatment in the Guides ,in schools in sport. And we are right to be angry about girls rights to have boundaries being taken away.

OP posts:
Allineedyoutodois · 25/09/2018 23:36

Well done GGs. That seems clear to me.

tillytop · 26/09/2018 00:42

Yes, absolutely clear. Girls born female don't matter!

StrangeLookingParasite · 26/09/2018 00:42

That looks incredibly stupid to me.

tillytop · 26/09/2018 00:45

Stupid and totally irresponsible. Where will it all end?

NicolaHare · 26/09/2018 04:04

In this thread (and in the corresponding thread in Feminist Chat) there has been a lot of talk about the possibility of teenage boys identifying as girls to commit sexual harassment. Not a single person in these threads has so far spoken about a preteen or teenager transgender girl they actually know or work with in the capacity of a role similar to guide leader, teacher, ect (or made any effort to introduce this perspective to the thread via an off-site link).

While entertaining hypotheticals is an important part of developing and critiquing safeguards, threads like this seem like exercises in entertaining the nightmare of the Evil Trangender Sex Pest to allow transphobic sentiments to be expressed with deniability, rather than a genuinely productive conversation.

P3onyPenny · 26/09/2018 06:46

I'm really heartened to see how inclusive girl guides are going by that survey.

Girls who attend scouts don't seem to have been getting pregnant in their droves by trans infiltrating the ranks.😂

What a lot of hysteria over nothing. My daughter has been a guide for years and never been on camp once. Think she'd laugh at me if I told her to watch out for trans if she did.😏

Molokonono · 26/09/2018 07:02

Girls who attend scouts don't seem to have been getting pregnant in their droves by trans infiltrating the ranks

I don't think you are quite getting it.

Girls in scouts know that boys are there and there are appropriate risk assessments and safeguarding procedures in place.

Girls in guides won't know a penis is there, will get thrown out if they question whether a penis is there and there is no risk assessment or safeguarding in place.

What a coup for penis owners who want access to women and girls.

And 'go you' for being so forward thinking that you cannot work it out.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 26/09/2018 07:04

Is there a Massive wave of trans wanting to be GG leaders or something ? I can’t see it somehow

P3onyPenny · 26/09/2018 07:14

Oh I'm getting it thanks.Hmm

Being trans doesn't make you any more of a safeguarding risk than any other member of the community.

Teenage boys( and I have two) would rather eat their own hair than dress up as a girl and live the life of a girl to get into the pants of girls. It could happen anywhere( Scouts included)and quite clearly doesn't.

All these parents buying guide uniform for boys and fillling in permission forms for their sons knowing their boys are trying to dupe the guiding community and commit crimes.😂

Molokonono · 26/09/2018 07:20

Teenage boys( and I have two) would rather eat their own hair than dress up as a girl and live the life of a girl to get into the pants of girls. It could happen anywhere( Scouts included)and quite clearly doesn't.

You are so right.

It's not as if there are even any rapes in schools, in a setting with no overnights eh?

Oh hang on...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41836303

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