To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

[Angryresister]

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

Btw, on "my 14yo girl would have no problem sharing with a male-bodied person, she isn't a transphobe" - I would have thought it was bloody fantastic to share sleeping arrangements with my bepenised partner at 14. 14 yo's are not necessarily the best judges.

Me as a 14 year girl would certainly have an issue sleeping in a tent with a boy. Not Transphobia but scare of boys. But as long as they boy is OK, he can muscle into an all-girl area. I could have just stayed at home.

@TwoOddSocks Trans people have the highest rate of suicide out of any demographic. They are the most likely to suffer prejudice in the work place or be attacked in public. So lets just steal all safe places from women and children, shall we? Just because Trans have the highest rate of suicide. Trans can have their pick of male or female places, yet females who identify as females only have one choice. So, lets steal their one last safe space away, for the sake of Trans who have the option of both. Wow. Just because Trans have high suicide rates, does not mean girls should be made to suffer and go without. You are not looking at this logically.

To be clearer - my hormones would have been influencing my thoughts more than my innate wokeness. But absolutely, I would not have been happy sharing with a male stranger.

Also in my wandering whataboutery mind, I was wondering if anyone would have issue with their daughter sharing accommodation with a 14yo transboy?

@CarolDanvers *"It’s currently one of the best things about MN. That they’re forcing people to be aware and consider the unpalatable and indeed dangerous aspects of TRA and self ID. Without this resource 1000s would still be unthinkingly accepting these changes because they’re not aware of how far reaching these changes will be and how women’s only spaces will disappear entirely." Well said! I used to defend Trans men and women and their self ID - until I came on here. I honestly did not stop to think about how it affects women and the serious repercussions. I was a fool. And I am glad Mumsnet exists for this reason, it woke me out of my naive stupor. Mumsnet will hopefully wake up the sleepers like myself who look only surface deep at issues like this, and realise what they are actually advocating is the removal of womens rights and womens safe spaces. I always thought womens rights are getting better and better. The arguments on here about Trans women stealing womens and young girls safe spaces makes me see us women truly are not that far advanced from the middle of last century. It is a shocking revelation. Once again, women are having our hard-fought gains stolen from us - and I have never really identified as a feminist, but I can see that now, more than at any time in history, women's rights are being seriously eroded.

The enter button on my laptop for some reason as stopped working so I cannot make paragraphs. Anyway, the last thing I was going to raise in my last post was that apart from womens spaces and womens rights being eroded, I now genuinely believe that with the 200% increase in trans identifying being reported among teenagers, that in 50 years time we will look back on this moment as a moment where mania and fads took over and put children/teenagers life in danger, and that includes teenagers/young adults who opt for gender reassignment and hormone therapy. I think we are watching a slow motion nuclear bomb - not mere train crash, and in 50 or so years time we will look back angry at those who ignored the warnings and the pleas for reason and common sense when we see the hormonal, biological and psychological damage this 'experiment' will do to innocent teens and adults bodies. We will look back on this stage with regret. The problem is "I told you so" will be too late and won't be able to change anything. We are watching a slow-erupting nuclear bomb, and those who are trying to speak out and are doubted, derided, called names like Transphobic e.g, well I just hope most of us are not alive to see the catastrophic affects that we all predict and see come true. My only hope is that does who doubted us, write us off as Transphobic, ignored our pleas for safe spaces for girls and women, are alive to see the damage they did and to face up to their foolishness. Because they are the people who should be held responsible.

Not sure if it was this thread by someone smartly suggested that it was as if the Harry Potter generation actually believe in magic. And yes, return buttons aren't working just now.

Firstly, apologies for lack of paragraphs. For those who struggle to believe that girls will be at risk, a parliamentary paper has been published on the extent of sexual assaults in school. One quick stat for you, 600 rapes reported over a 3 year period. Key word "reported" imagine the numbers of those not reported. Now imagine if you were one of these girls who have had to experience the absolute trauma of being raped in a so called safe space, imagine having one of your very few female only spaces being taken away and not being in a position to raise how this makes you feel without having to be "re-educated" as to why you should accept a penis in your female space. It is a sobering paper, especially as it notes how downplayed the experiences of those impacted are, the excuses made by teachers due to the age of those involved, "boys will be boys" etc. The lengths people go to to minimise the risk to girls is breath taking, as evidenced on this thread. In a day and age where the government need to publish reports on the increase in sex attacks in schools, more should be done to safe guard girls, rather than dismantle what little they have. www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/women-and-equalities-committee/news-parliament-2015/sexual-harassment-and-violence-in-schools-report-published-16-17/

So it isn't just me with the lack of ability to create paragraphs on here? PHEW! :) I was beginning to worry. I thought I'd have to get my laptop fixed and that's pricey.

TRAs be like:

Jokey comics aside, I was very “woke” about trans rights until threads on MN awakened me to the very real danger to women’s rights and women’s spaces. I equated it with LBG rights and have always supported minorities. Several of my friends have said the same thing. So while some people get annoyed about threads like this, I very much welcome them for raising awareness of the issues.

@Goth237 You clearly haven't even read any of the thread if you think this is solely about trans paedophiles. Try reading instead of emotionally reacting out of blind bigotry.

The enter button on my laptop for some reason as stopped working so I cannot make paragraphs. I have the same problem. It's here. More transphobia. Woohoo! Sorry Woke Princess, that silencing technique is no longer effective.

Excellent posts SalemBlackCat Even without paragraphs. Agree with every word of them

Susie Green's point about no one protected characteristic being allowed to override another's was interesting.

              Only to show how ignorant of the law she is. We as a society take away protections in certain circumstances. Would you be happy with a blind bus driver? A deaf pilot? A drunk taxi driver? A child with chicken pox visiting gran on the cancer ward?

Would you be happy with a blind bus driver? A deaf pilot? A drunk taxi driver? A child with chicken pox visiting gran on the cancer ward? They aren't examples of protected characteristics though. An example would be deciding between a disabled person or a pregnant woman for example. Whose rights would over ride the other if they conflicted?

twitter.com/KateHoeyMP/status/1044358566247911424?s=19 support from a female MP at last.

Disability IS a protected characteristic, it is also unique in British law that you can legally discriminate in favour of a disabled person.

        In the case of disabled vs pregnant in most situations disabled trumps pregnant eg accessible toilet, wheelchair space on the bus...     
                                                                                                                          
         If they are both applying for the same job then the employer can legally discriminate in favour of the disabled person.

@sashh. That was my point - if you are giving examples of balancing the needs of one person with a protected characteristic vs the needs of another with PC then you need to actually use examples of PC. A drunk taxi driver or a child with chicken pox visiting their gran on the cancer ward aren't examples of people with protected characteristics. Unless having chicken pox, being drunk or being a taxi driver are protected characteristics? Those are examples of the wants of one person being prevented for the benefit or safety of others. Not weighing one PC against another with conflicting needs.

Veering off topic, but there is a problem in the US in some states where it is illegal to discriminate by age for bus drivers and, I believe, drivers of commercial vehicles (trucks etc). So an 80-year-old could be driving the bus, or a school bus. And there have been accidents with fatalities. So clearly protecting some rights are not, well, right . Surely our rights only extend as far as not interfering with another's right to enjoy their freedom or safety. So surely it cannot be right for someone who "feels" female to inhabit the space of biological females. It's flippin' Emperor's New Clothes and we need that small boy to shout out the plain truth.

Veering off topic, but there is a problem in the US in some states where it is illegal to discriminate by age for bus drivers and, I believe, drivers of commercial vehicles (trucks etc). Recent inquest into the deaths of woman and child (IIRC) killed when 80-year-old bus driver veered off the road. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/18/elderly-bus-driver-had-dementia-killed-two-coventry-crash-court/ Rights have to be proportional (proportionate?)

Brown Fair enough, but there are two points here. One is that the rights of one person, due to protected characteristics, do sometimes, legally trump the other.

The other point is that we do put restrictions on 's rights for the good of society or to protect people eg drink drive laws and quarantining infectious people.

@sashh

I agree entirely with what you say. I was just trying to point out that preventing a drunk taxi driver from driving or a child with chicken pox visiting hospital aren't examples of one protected characteristic outweighing another as a PP said.

Definitely examples of curtailing one person's behaviour for the benefit of another, I agree.

RhiWrites
How dare you categorise and denigrate people for asking question, thinking critically and reasoning, in other words, using the faculties that make us human. People like you try to enforce and impose a strict obedience to your confined viewpoint on how the world should behave, think and express themselves. The very essence of a progressive society is that we are able to think independently and critically and express ourselves freely without fear of subjugation.
People get offended all the time. It's an extremely personal sentiment. This should not equate to silencing other individuals for 'causing' you offence.