To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

[Angryresister]

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

What excellent points did Susie Green make?

And what is the difference between taking a female child abroad for FGM and taking a male child abroad for SRS?

Apart from the fact I believe the Male child would get an anaesthetic for the ‘procedure’.

You can listen to it on catch up. Taken children abroad wasn't mentioned as it was a debate about trans girls being allowed to join the GG.

They aren't taken off for a day at the seaside you know.

AsAProf - trips anywhere weren't mentioned as the discussion was specifically to do with transgirls in the GG. Seaside or otherwise.

So not able to answer either question? I’m sure that speaks volumes to all the lurkers.

Allineedyoutodois

Interestingly authoritative posting name 😁

The point about Suzi Green's actions WRT her own child is that perhaps she isn't the best person to talk about what is good for children in general.

Radio 4, catch up, takes 5 mins.Deffo worth a listen, and both sides represented.

As drspouse said - its like asking Cruella deVille her policy on 'taking care of' dalmatian puppies (with a nod to Father Ted).

We aren't allowed to go into ti though are we?

Susie Green's point about no one protected characteristic being allowed to override another's was interesting.
So why should gender reassignment (which I am assuming boys who identify as girls wouldn't qualify under anyway) be given priority over sex or religious belief?

Because she is only concerned with this.

I do wonder why a self-ID/trans woman would even want to be involved in Girl Guides. Surely they would have the self awareness and sensitivity to leave that well alone and find another group to be involved with? If I were a self-ID trans woman I would have enough respect for the situation and enough of a sensitivity chip and common sense to stay away from things like Girl Guides. Why can't they join another less controversial group?

No because women are brought up conditioned to consider others, be polite, be nice, move over and let the others' play... Boys are not.

There is little self awareness and the goal is to shove to the front of the queue. The very fact that this is the case shows that they don't 'feel like' a woman.

Passing is the goal and women are not actually considered in the equation.

This is what dh says. Every time I raise this issue, he thinks I'm exaggerating and it is a trivial problem.

But... this is a campaign . And this campaign keeps finding "trailblazers" to make headway, so they will come up with a teenage boy who identifies as female who wants to go on a guide camp, or indeed a trans leader.

Any decent person would avoid changing rooms, obvious sex segregated organisations etc. But the activists are not interested in decency. They are intent on pushing boundaries beyond the realms of safety and covering it all up with cuddly woke-ness.

It’s pointless isn’t it? If you’ve decided someone is a bigot then conveniently and ironically you don’t have to listen to what they have to say because you’ve put them in a group you feel you don’t have to give the respect of listening to what they have to say to.

So obvious holes in safeguarding policy? La la la. Making life harder for other minority groups? La la la. Making life harder for some biologically female women? La la la.

I’m starting to think that some of those that are so vociferous about trans rights don’t actually give a shit about trans people because I can’t see if you care about trans people why you would be happy that policy changes seemingly on their behalf encourage secrecy and discourage questioning which has the potential to be exploited by child abusers and sex offenders. It puts all the children at risk, including the trans children.

Children are at risk and I think it is sometimes from their own parents and 'professionals'.

If you wonder why a trans woman might want to be involved in GG then you probably wonder why men want to be nursery or primary school teachers, or why gay men and women want to have children. The assumption that trans people ( and trans girls in this case) are somehow automatically suspicious and predatory is backward to say the least IMHO.

Saying 'there are no safeguarding issues here, parents don't need to worry, girls don't need to feel uncomfortable, because trans girls are girls' is not good enough.

Any thoughts on the secrecy? Why this is being kept from parents?

@Allineedyoutodois

So do you just think that GGs should be mixed sex then? Because that is what letting trans girls join means, it makes GGs a mixed sex group.

Regardless of their genetailia they are female

Do words not mean anything anymore? Female refers to biological sex, not gender. Therefore a trans woman isn't and can never be female.

If "female", as well as "woman" now include anyone who identifies as such, then how can we describe people who were born with xx chromosomes, vaginas and internal reproductive organs? Can we not have any words to describe ourselves that won't be taken? And "cis" doesn't cut it because it doesn't include females who now identify as men.

If you wonder why a trans woman might want to be involved in GG then you probably wonder why men want to be nursery or primary school teachers, or why gay men and women want to have children.
No, the question is not why a man who identifies as a woman wants to be in a space with children.
They are perfectly welcome to be school teachers, nursery workers, parents, Scout leaders, sports coaches etc. etc. etc.
The question is why - when many trans identifying men KNOW they are men - a trans identifying man wants to be in a WOMEN'S space.
It can only be because a) they are deluded and think they are female or b) they aren't deluded and don't think they are female but it will make THEM feel better and in either case they can sod right off.

This applies to Guiding, Girls' Brigade, girls' schools (as a pupil, or in girls' changing areas/sleeping areas), women's refuges, women's counselling services, women's prisons, etc. etc.

Any thoughts on the secrecy? Why this is being kept from parents?
Because they will complain and withdraw their girls?
But also because it stops GG feeling so "nice", stops people donating, makes people ask questions about safeguarding.

How is that anything other than complete erasure of women and females if we can't even have a word that applies only to us anymore?