To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

[Angryresister]

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

And actually wasn’t ‘ballou’ Challenor a scout leader? That’s a whole other thread there, their Safeguarding also needs improving

Regardless of their genetailia they are female.

“regardless of their genitalia”

You haven’t really thought that through have you? Do you understand that millions of women and girls around the world are sexually assulated and raped precisely because of male genitalia?

And subjected to FGM because of female genitalia.

"I encourage them to speak to me, to speak up"

What GG is doing is preventing people who have concerns from asking questions, getting more than a stock answer and trying to silence them.

So if your daughter came to you and said she had a concern, it would be like you saying 'don't worry, it hasn't happened yet and if you continue to ask about it I am going to ignore you and disown you'. Rather than you looking into why the matter concerned her and working with her to find a suitable resolution.

No leader I know of is saying trans girls should not be in GG. What they are concerned about is the likes of Karen White gaining access and abusing those they are sharing a supposedly protected space with. We know it's a very small minority of an already small minority. But history has shown that those who are placed in trust with vulnerable people cannot always be trusted. Jimmy saville, Risley, Amberdale, Wood Nook. The jersey children's home scandal, Rotherham. To name a few known scandals. Does GG really want to be added to that list in a few years time because of a hastily published and ill thought out reaction to an ill thought out policy of self identification. Just because the majority won't abuse, doesn't negate the fact that a minority will take advantage of a loophole.

Not really, there are male leaders and staff are not allowed to share a room with them anyway. When I was in school we had a pervy male teacher, who made everyone strip wash on a school residential whilst he stood there watching things have massively changed since as he wouldn't have been able to do that now and being trans doesn't mean there is an increased chance of them being pervy.

Interview going on in 5Live now..

mini I love your post. It gets to the very heart of the issue.

I think we need to be very clear about what our objections are to Self ID. The message gets exaggerated by TAs and we are accused of being “against trans people*.
This is not true. We are against removing safeguards with would allow sexual preditors easy access to women and girls.

From Girlguiding ‘s own guidance for residentials:

If adults share a sleeping area with under 18s, there must be at least two adults present.

So there are occasions when a trans guide leader (likely with a penis as 80% retain their penis) could be sleeping beside teenage girls.

Also from their guidance :

If male volunteers or male children are present, there must be separate sleeping and bathroom facilities for them.

Why are males kept separate and trans volunteers aren’t? It just doesn’t make any sense. There’s exactly the same risk.

What's 'male'? Why are some so adamant that 'feeling like a woman' is enough to be a woman?

You're not a woman
Yes I am
Prove it
I feel like a woman
How?
I like pink and played with dolls and fairy dresses as a child - I feel womanly.
So what?
No debate. Bigot. Terf ferf tart fart yurt, etc etc etc. (At which point Big Brother steps in on the boys side).

I'd have a problem with adults sharing rooms/showers with children/teens though if this is what is happening?

Please fill in the government consultation to show the general public isn't onside with bringing in the concept of allowing people to self identify as the opposite sex.

t.co/87g8jSg70X

The victims are the poor men and women who have lived their lives in the wrong body and have the courage to come forward and tell us how they feel.

How does that work BTW? The body you have is the body you have - no matter if you throw a dress on it.

They're not conforming to the societal expectations of Gender - fine - but they're not "in the wrong body" and a man will always be a man no matter how many frocks or how much lippy he applies.

I'm not sure why teenaged boys who "identify as lesbian" (90% of the time) should be allowed access to the same single sex areas as girls.

I wouldn't let a gay boy share female accommodation, no matter how deep the protestations of disinterest.

Penises don't belong in female spaces - full stop.

I'd have a problem with adults sharing rooms/showers with children/teens though if this is what is happening?

What about male & female teens sharing rooms/showers?

Other, mixed sex, organisations do it with the appropriate segregation of sexes. The problem with the Girl Guides approach is that they still regard themselves as a single sex organisation and there are no segregation policies for mixed sexs - and parents won't be informed either.

I'd have a problem with adults sharing rooms/showers with children/teens though if this is what is happening?
Room sharing is public GG policy. So now you know, you needn't send your DD.

That's why trans females are welcome. Regardless of their genetailia they are female.

No they are not.

No. They. Are. Not.

Also Cubs/Beavers/Scouts are different. They are openly mixed sex so parents are fully informed when they send their kid there.

The thing is, with these ill thought out policies is that the pervy bloke who preyed on kids in the 80s is now back, saying he’s a woman and is allowed more access to dc than he would if he didn’t say that. Scouts for eg don’t let leaders in with dc because of pervy horrible men but gg haven’t had the scandals (because 90%+ of sexual violence is committed by men) so they have different rules. Pervy blokes don’t have to live as women, change their details, see a dr, take hormones, even wear a dress or a wig or make up these days to say they’re a woman - it’s taken on their word alone. Having this trans inclusive policy combined with a policy where you don’t tell parents the possibility of a man being there overnight who says he’s a woman and with a policy that is historically based on everyone being biologically female so leaders can share with girls if there’s no other options is a recipe for disaster.

i do think that there are a lot of anti-trans bigots on here pretending to have a serious 'debate' about this.

Not "anti-trans" or "bigots" - they're just people that don't want their teenage girls sharing tents with teenage boys/penises.

It's not allowed in Cadets, DofE or Scouts - so why should it be allowed in Girl Guides??

the pervy bloke who preyed on kids in the 80s is now back

For me that's less of an issue - for me it's the fact that teenagers with penises will be put in the same accommodation as those without.

What could possible go wrong there? It's not like teenage penises could cause any problems.........

Regardless of their genetailia they are female.

Nope.

Woman/female is not a costume.

Is trans female a thing now? Female is not a gender.

Room sharing is public GG policy. So now you know, you needn't send your DD.

Now this pisses me off. GG used to be single sex, now it is not but hidden by the political agenda. If you complain because you want the truth and not lied to, you are a bigot and mean to those poor transwomen and transgirls. And then you are told you then better stay home. Dear women and girls, your options are to accept you are lied to and your abiltity to set boundaries for you or your girls taken away from you or you can stay home!

Transideology: taking options and rights away from women and girls one step at a time.

It's not allowed in Cadets, DofE or Scouts - so why should it be allowed in Girl Guides??

Not true. Girls and boys can share tents in Scouts.

Only with parents and the young people informed and their views listened to Oakmaiden which GGs aren't doing. In fact they are saying it is best practice NOT to inform parents.