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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

821 replies

Angryresister · 23/09/2018 06:32

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

OP posts:
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11
IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 20:51

You are aware that how the person attached to a penis ‘identifies’ doesn’t stop the penis from being capable of impregnating someone? Ffs.

Elephantinacravat · 23/09/2018 20:52

Gay people never forced other people to lie about objective reality.

iamnotanumber10 · 23/09/2018 20:53

YEs, I would let my DD share a bedroom with a trans girl. FFS. I'm assuming that She's not a convicted sex offender of course.

PurpleCrowbar · 23/09/2018 20:53

I live overseas in a compound with lots of other teachers. I have 3 dc, ds15 & dds aged 12 & 9.

Now my Ds is universally known as What A Lovely Young Man That Crowboy Is. He's a gentle giant. Funny, kind, great with little kids. He's absolutely the go to babysitter in our compound.

My dds both have local bffs. If sleepovers are allowed at all, they are definitely away fixtures; I'm the owner of a teenage boy, & naicely brought up young ladies here categorically do not sleepover in houses with unrelated teenage lads.

So, fair enough, I get it. I'm guilty of casting my suspicious eye at dd1's mate's divorced dad tbh - I have no reason whatsoever to worry about him, beyond that he's a bloke, but I do relax that bit more when dd1 BFF is inviting dd1 to stay at her mum's.

& more still when dd2 is with her best friend - both parents are colleagues so I know them well.

Who is being irrational?

Statistically, me, for thinking that my dds are fine on sleepovers where I know the dads well. That's no reason to assume all will be well.Them, for being aware that there's a hormonal teenage adolescent male in the mix? Well, obviously my boy is entirely trustworthy & delightful - in my eyes.

We do mistrust males where females are vulnerable, & for good reason, & all the Not My Nigel or indeed Now Nigella doesn't change the risks.

One thing I do know, is that a male identified as female presence in their dds' residential trips would be 100% game over for my daughters' friends' families.

& that would be a wholly rational decision, & the end of these girls' participation.

YANBU OP.

annikin · 23/09/2018 20:53

I understand why genuine trans people would be offended by these posts. But my problem isn't with them, it's with predatory sex offenders who could manipulate the new rules to their advantage to gain access to places they previously couldn't have gone. The offenders who can say they self ID as a woman but are lying in order to gain access. I don't know what the solution is to safeguard against this possibility, but I'm not sure we've found it yet.

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 20:56

But not the 14 year old boy down the road? What's the difference please?

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 20:56

annikin I think the old school transsexuals are as Pissed off with this shit as the rest of us are. She Miranda Yardley and the like. They are not happy about predators using them as a human shield.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/09/2018 20:56

YEs, I would let my DD share a bedroom with a trans girl. FFS. I'm assuming that She's not a convicted sex offender of course

So you have no issues with a DD sharing a bedroom with a boy.

LemonJello · 23/09/2018 20:56

And yeah, i do think that there are a lot of anti-trans bigots on here

You don’t seem to be capable of understanding the arguments so it’s no wonder you think that.

Unless I’ve missed a post from someone concerned about their daughter sharing with a trans child because they think they are contagious??? Hmm

annikin · 23/09/2018 20:57

Although, to be fair, I also wouldn't want my teenage girl to be sharing a room with a teenage boy, however he self IDs either, especially without my knowledge.

Prettyvase · 23/09/2018 20:58

This reply has been deleted

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poshme · 23/09/2018 21:00

This
I understand why genuine trans people would be offended by these posts. But my problem isn't with them, it's with predatory sex offenders who could manipulate the new rules to their advantage to gain access to places they previously couldn't have gone. The offenders who can say they self ID as a woman but are lying in order to gain access. I don't know what the solution is to safeguard against this possibility, but I'm not sure we've found it yet.
*
This. Over and over and over again.*

babybythesea · 23/09/2018 21:01

Safeguarding is in place, respect for privacy will be in place, adult supervision will be in place. A transgirl isn't trans as some ploy to get at your teenage daughters. FFS

No, but a man claiming he is trans might be. He may not even be trans - it doesn't matter as long as he says he is. Safeguarding is in place. Respect for privacy is in place. But those things are also in place in other organisations and it doesn't always stop it happening. DBS checks will only throw things up once someone has been caught, and possibly not then if they've name changed and not revealed their old name.

None of this is trans hatred. It is fear of someone who has no interest in any trans issues at all using it as a loophole. I am thinking more adults than kids. Respect for privacy will be in place but if someone has got themselves into the position of leader and wants to undermine that, they will. I am not saying that men cannot be leaders, because predators represent a tiny fraction of all men.
But we don't have safeguarding at a place where it is faultless and to assume we do and use this as an argument, and to refuse to see loopholes just makes it an accident waiting to happen. Surely the way to keep kids safe is to find all the loopholes, through discussion, and listening to concerns raised, and close them before any policies come into effect? Otherwise you are effectively using the kids as guinea pigs to find where the loopholes are.

iamnotanumber10 · 23/09/2018 21:02

I'm aware of how women get pregnant, I'm aware that most transgirls will still have a penis, I'm aware that some transwomen will always have a penis. HOWEVER I do not assume that trans girls are predatory wannabe rapists trying to get at my daughter by joining the girl guides.
I also send my kids to activities where I am sure the safeguarding is excellent, I encourage them to speak to me, to speak up. Because no safeguarding is perfect.
I teach them to respect themselves and others, that would include not constantly referring to a transgirl as a boy, with a penis.
Predators can be everywhere, but honestly they are most likely to already be in your home or your family. Your father, your uncle, your DH's best friend, people who have access to your children everday,
They're not the 13 year old transgirl who's been brave enough to join the GG, despite the ridicule and ignorance she might face.

iamnotanumber10 · 23/09/2018 21:04

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PeakPants · 23/09/2018 21:05

I have 40 odd years experience of the anti gay 'stuff' and I can tell you that this is EXACTLY like the anti gay stuff. Word for word in some places.

No, it really is not. And FYI, on some websites, people are saying that prejudice against people who are attracted to minors is also like the anti-gay stuff.... In some cases, people's misgivings about something are not because they are bigoted but are actually legitimately based on safety and rights concerns. Seems a bit odd that lesbians and feminists who fought so hard for gay rights are suddenly secret bigots, aligned with the far-right movement, doesn't it?
Why does being trans mean automatic entry into the spaces reserved for the opposite sex? Why can trans rights not consist of rights against discrimination and the right to have specific trans or non-binary spaces?

babybythesea · 23/09/2018 21:05

YEs, I would let my DD share a bedroom with a trans girl. FFS. I'm assuming that She's not a convicted sex offender of course

Would you be happy to let your DD to share with a boy who says he is a trans girl because he thinks getting into a bedroom with a girl would be a laugh and something to tell all his mates about? It doesn't need to be predatory - just a lad who is going way too far. At this stage, there is no difference in what is said, but loads of difference in motive and you have no way of knowing.

rightreckoner · 23/09/2018 21:05

Nobody thinks the confused 13 year old boy is ridiculous or ignorant. They do think the adults promoting this agenda and sacrifing girls to it are.

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 21:06

The transgirl doesn't have to be predatory for it to be inappropriate to share a bedroom with a girl. It is still 2 underage kids of the opposite sex sharing a room. In no other circumstances would that be considered appropriate. Why does the word 'trans' suddenly make it okay?

GoldenWonderwall · 23/09/2018 21:06

If I were trans I would want any safeguarding issues ironed out because if the shit hit the fan I would not want the people responsible for crap policy to be able to legitimately say they were just trying to be nice and inclusive to trans people.

Everyone gets to hide behind trans people: the predators that spot an opportunity, the people who write the crap policies, anyone else with an agenda they’re pushing that is nothing to do with lovely inclusivity for trans people.

iamnotanumber10 · 23/09/2018 21:08

Peak Pants - really it is.
But trying to argue on here about trans anything is like trying to clean a cesspit with an air freshener.

PeakPants · 23/09/2018 21:08

iamnotanumber10

Yes, we know that you are happy for your DD to share with a trans girl. You have said that about 5 times. That was not the question. Would you be happy for her to share a room with a boy (who identifies as a boy)? If not, can you explain who one is fine and the other is not? What is it about ID-ing as trans that makes a male automatically safe?

BoneyBackJefferson · 23/09/2018 21:08

iamnotanumber10

For me this above sums up the level of bigotry and ignorance on this site about trans people

So you are saying that a girl that is going through a huge amount of physical and hormonal changes and is body conscious that she doesn't want to be seen by a male is a bigot and ignorant?

And you are also saying that a girl who doesn't want to see a penis is a bigot and ignorant?

BoneyBackJefferson · 23/09/2018 21:10

iamnotanumber10

Just a thought but you have said that you are happy for your DD to share spaces with a transgirl, What does your DD think, or doesn't that matter?

babybythesea · 23/09/2018 21:11

"They're not the 13 year old transgirl who's been brave enough to join the GG, despite the ridicule and ignorance she might face."

No, I totally agree. Any kid going through this deserves complete respect. But what if this opens the door to others (adults mainly) who have more sinister motives? I don't know how, at this stage, you can support the one while ensuring full safeguarding and protection from the other. But until there is a really, really good answer then it worries me. Because I don't give a damn if only one abuser makes it through the system out of thousands of transgirls and women joining. If my child meets that one abuser then the stats will be precious little comfort.
And yes, I will say it again, the same applies to any organisation. At this point, it mostly hasn't applied to Guides because men are far, far more likely to be sexual predators than women. And now we are taking away one of the few safe women only spaces there are?