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Original poster

To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

821 replies

Angryresister · 23/09/2018 06:32

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

OP posts:
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11
rightreckoner · 23/09/2018 20:22

What was Karen White doing then iam? Claiming female status to get access. This happens. I don’t frankly care how this person feels - objective truth and safety of girls matter more.

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 20:23

iamnotanumber10 Male is accurate to describe a teenager with a penis. Would you let your 13 year old daughter share a bedroom with her boyfriend? Or the boy down the road? Does calling a male teenager with a penis a 'transgirl' suddenly render pregnancy impossible? Does it suddenly mean that the girls shouldn't feel uncomfortable or in need of privacy?

Carrrotsandcauliflower · 23/09/2018 20:23

Thia is super simple. Parents have a right to informed consent this is not possible if they don’t know if their girl teen is sleeping in same room using shower room a physical boy teen no matter how he identifies.
If the leader is male as in has a penis I would also want to know for the same reasons.
I find it very strange that the guides have decided on a policy that deliberately keeps these details from parents.
What if say for instance the boy identifies as a girl but is still attracted to girls and is sexually active in this way? This doesn’t paint anybody in a bad light in so far as sexual predatory behaviour; it’s just common sense not to allow mixed sex teen sleep overs, or to inform parents of that is what you are offering.
I am removing my daughter from the waiting list for guides because frankly if they can’t get safeguarding right they are unfit.

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 20:25

I'm interested in your motivation for supporting the erosion of safeguarding and informed consent iamnotanumber10. Why are you supporting girls and parents being blindsided by the potential presence of boys in their intimate space when they have signed up for single SEX activities?

iamnotanumber10 · 23/09/2018 20:29

Where did I say that girls should leave if they don't want to share a space with a trans girl? I don't think that you're giving your children enough credit, I don't think that they'll be as panicked or fearful or disgusted or whatever you think they should be at coming into contact with a transgirl. Its not contagious, the trans won't spread.
And I'll say it again, this scaremongering reminds me of all the arguments ever made against gay or lesbian kids sharing spaces with the straight kids, using the same changing rooms, trying to talk to their teachers about their sexuality but being fearful of their 'secret' getting out. It reminds me of the bigotry and ignorance that coms from parents tryng to 'protect' their children from predatory 'gays' because why else would a lesbian teenager want to join in the cheerleading squad? to get a the girls of course. why would a gay man want to be a coach - to get at the young boys... and on and on and on.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/09/2018 20:36

iamnotanumber so you think all spaces and situations should be mixed sex?

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 20:37

Would you let your 13 year old daughter share a bedroom with the 14 year old boy down the street iamnotanumber10?

GoldenWonderwall · 23/09/2018 20:39

I think what’s so frustrating is how easy it is to hide any discussion behind ‘waa, you hate trans people you bigots’ and numerous organisations are quietly rewriting the rules of the game and can do because there’s a wall of waa that’s really hard to get through.

If no trans woman or trans girls join gg then the safeguarding rules and informed parental consent have still been changed haven’t they? Some of the trust between parents and the organisation has gone, girls from certain minority groups have yet another place they won’t be allowed to go, girls who’ve experienced rape and sexual assault might not join in the fear of potentially being exposed to male biology where they’re vulnerable etc. Trans is a red herring really with safeguarding as it should be possible to safeguard and include trans people without having to lie or obfuscate the truth to service users and their parents.

AyeRobot · 23/09/2018 20:39

This is actually about protecting spaces for girls (I know the op was about leaders). Whilst there is a huge safeguarding issue, girls need spaces protected for them for all sorts of reasons, one of which is to allow them a space to escape gender stereotypes and expectations for a small part of their week. I thought that was what the guides was all about. Not to be a group that reinforces those stereotypes - haven't they campaigned against these?

It is nothing like anti gay stuff.

Elephantinacravat · 23/09/2018 20:41

I assume from your posts then iam that you are perfectly happy with mixed sex everything then? Do you not think we need sex segregated spaces in some instances?

iamnotanumber10 · 23/09/2018 20:42

I would let my teenage daughter go on a GG residential, and if there was a trans girl there as part of that group, no I would not give a damn.
Because a transgirl is NOT a '14 year old boy down the street'.
I would also let my DD go on one if there was a gay girl as part of that group. I would let her go if SHE was the gay girl in that group. And I would trust that the guide leaders ensured that there was nothing illegal going on, sexual or otherwise.

LemonJello · 23/09/2018 20:43

Its not contagious, the trans won't spread

Hmm Where the fuck have you got the idea that anyone thinks this?

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 20:44

Would you be happy for her to share a bedroom with a teenage boy with a penis, as long as they identify as trans?

iamnotanumber10 · 23/09/2018 20:45

No, I am NOT perfectly happy with mixed sex everything. But Elephant, your post is rejecting that someone can even be trans, that's correct isn't it? I don't see including a transgirl is GG is creating a mixed sex group.
I DO have some issues with self ID and women's spaces, but trans girls being included in GG and the possibility - though notthat common I'm pretty sure -of a trans GG leader isn't one of them.

Elephantinacravat · 23/09/2018 20:45

Because a transgirl is NOT a '14 year old boy down the street'.

A transgirl is still male.

AyeRobot · 23/09/2018 20:46

And GGUK are not supportive of all transpeople - their policy is to encourage transboys to leave. If you are an uncritical trans supporter, their policy should enrage you just the same. Unless, of course, you think that sex is meaningless and gender is everything and trumps all.

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 20:47

What is the difference between a transgirl and a teenage boy down the street, other than how they identify? What is the material factual difference between these two people please?

iamnotanumber10 · 23/09/2018 20:47

Don't know how many times I need to say that I'd be happy for my DD to go on a residential with a trans girl.

Elephantinacravat · 23/09/2018 20:47

But Elephant, your post is rejecting that someone can even be trans, that's correct isn't it? I don't see including a transgirl is GG is creating a mixed sex group.

No quite the opposite actually. If a transgirl isn't male, then what is it that makes them 'trans'?

Taffeta · 23/09/2018 20:48

This is actually about protecting spaces for girls (I know the op was about leaders). Whilst there is a huge safeguarding issue, girls need spaces protected for them for all sorts of reasons, one of which is to allow them a space to escape gender stereotypes and expectations for a small part of their week.

This.

PeakPants · 23/09/2018 20:48

Because a transgirl is NOT a '14 year old boy down the street'.

Uh huh, so what's the difference then? A 14 year trans girl will have taken no hormones and will have had no surgery. Please explain carefully to me the difference between this fully intact male person and a 14 year old boy down the street and how one of them is fine to share spaces with girls and the other is not. I look forward to hearing this.

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 20:48

I asked if you'd be happy for your DD to share a bedroom with a transgirl. Would you?

Lazypoolday · 23/09/2018 20:48

I don't see including a transgirl is GG is creating a mixed sex group

But they are. Sex is literally unchangeable regardless of gender identity. Trans women and girls are biological males. How is stating this fact now considered hate speech?

iamnotanumber10 · 23/09/2018 20:50

AyeRobot. I have 40 odd years experience of the anti gay 'stuff' and I can tell you that this is EXACTLY like the anti gay stuff. Word for word in some places. Anyway, I have my opinion. And yeah, i do think that there are a lot of anti-trans bigots on here pretending to have a serious 'debate' about this.

PeakPants · 23/09/2018 20:51

Don't know how many times I need to say that I'd be happy for my DD to go on a residential with a trans girl.

And presumably you would be happy for her to go on a residential with any boy and to share spaces with that boy? If you're not, could you explain why you oppose to a boy who says he is a boy, but not to a boy who says he is a girl. What is it about saying that you are a woman that suddenly makes it fine to share intimate spaces with natal females?

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