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Original poster

To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

821 replies

Angryresister · 23/09/2018 06:32

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
drspouse · 23/09/2018 17:20

It is an issue if a girl decides to embark on a sexual relationship on a camp.
But please READ MY POSTS.
If girls decide to have sex with another girl, or a Scout, we/parents know they are going to be there and can prepare.
If we aren't allowed to know a boy will be there we can't prepare.

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 17:20

Thanks. I even saw lesbians used as a defence to Karen White. Apparently it's fine to put a male rapist in a women's prison because you know they have lesbians in there too right? FFS.

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 17:24

It's homophobic to use lesbians as some kind of 'bogeyman' comparable to males.

Actually I wasn't. I asked the question before the question about who is responsible if a pregnancy occurs.

And I think it is a reasonable question in response to an objection to a trans girl attending camp because a sexual relationship might occur. That risk is there regardless of whether they are only boys, only girls or mixed sex.

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 17:24

Prior to this all kicking off I naively believed that as a society we’d moved past homophobia and racism. This has all being very eye opening. I’m truly shocked at how deeply misogyny, homophobia and racism is really entrenched in some portions of the population.

I’m also shocked at how some people without the benefit of safeguarding training actually think.

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 17:25

@drspouse

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense and is all that I was asking.

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 17:30

Lesbians aren't responsible for 98% of sexual violence. Lesbians can't get you pregnant and are very unlikely to give you an STI. In a discussion on safeguarding and single sex spaces why bring up lesbians? Lesbians are female and belong in female spaces.

RaininSummer · 23/09/2018 17:31

I find it astonishing that the very clear safeguarding concerns are labelled as transphobia. So glad that these threads start since it is one of the few ways people will become aware of this as the whole gender identity law changes are being brought in under cover.

Marie0 · 23/09/2018 17:33

No I don't think you should be told the gender - what matters is the suitability (i.e qualifications, skill set and experience) of the person for the particular role which they are fulfilling - nothing else should come in to it.

Vicky1990 · 23/09/2018 17:39

Would there be concern if it was a boy with a female identifying male leader, or a female identifying female leader?.

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 17:46

Lesbians aren't responsible for 98% of sexual violence. Lesbians can't get you pregnant and are very unlikely to give you an STI. In a discussion on safeguarding and single sex spaces why bring up lesbians? Lesbians are female and belong in female spaces.

I didn't say that I was concerned about sexual violence.
I clearly don't think there is a risk of pregnancy and I think the risk of 2 young teenagers passing on STIs is slim.
And I most definitely agree that lesbians are female and have every right to be in female only spaces.

I brought up the issue of 2 children having sex within a discussion on safeguarding. It should not matter if they are same sex or opposite sex. I was asking what the policy is and drspouse answered.

That is all there was to it.

The only possibility of a relationship occuring is not just between a male and female or a trans girl and a girl. There is also a possibility of a relationship between two girls developing too.

None of those sexual relationships are desirable between two people under 16 years of age. That is my only point.

Sexual relationships in underage people is not desirable. Are safeguards in place?

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 17:50

Would there be concern if it was a boy with a female identifying male leader, or a female identifying female leader?

That should be a huge safeguarding issue in my opinion.

With regards to the leader it's also an abuse of their position of authority too.

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 17:53

Why are sexual relationships not desirable between under 16’s?

StrangeLookingParasite · 23/09/2018 17:53

glad to see the hate being challenged

Any disagreement, any protest, or even attempt to discuss anything is characterised as "hate". What a silencing technique.

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 18:01

Why are sexual relationships not desirable between under 16’s?

Do you mean apart from the fact that technically they are illegal?

So the potential emotional damage, the danger of encouraging things like sexting or sending explicit photos which can then lead to children being prosecuted as a sex offender as the sending or receiving of explicit photos of a child under 18 is an offense (even if it is a picture of yourself), the opening of the pandora's box of emotions that children aren't best placed to deal with, the risk that starting sexual relationships at a young age risks promiscuity?

Or any number of reasons why many people don't think it's that great if 13,14 and 15 year olds start having sex.

Do you think that it's a good idea then?

noeffingidea · 23/09/2018 18:13

the danger of encouraging things like sexting or sending explicit photos
Do these things happen frequently in (underage) lesbian relationships? I haven't heard of it myself, though I have heard of underage girls being pressurised into it by boys.

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 18:15

Of course I don’t think it’s a good idea. Personally I’d put the age up to 18. But you’re being extremely disingenuous to not acknowledge that historically one of the major drivers of age of consent is to prevent the damage that underage pregnancy does to both mother and child.

You’re also being extremely disingenuous to suggest that the SEX of children involved in underage sexual activity doesn’t matter. Who do you think does the pressurising and who do you think is being pressured?

Please read this document that has just been released to schools and tell me if you think sex matters and if parents have a right to be told the sex of children sharing accommodation with their daughters.

ukfeminista.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Report-Its-just-everywhere.pdf

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 18:16

I don't know.

The question I was answering was

Why are sexual relationships not desirable between under 16’s?

I think they are reasons why sexual relationships between under 16s aren't desirable - basically many aren't emotionally ready for them.

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 18:25

@IAmLurkacus

I'm not down loading a pdf document from an unknown source.

I don't agree with the stance that GG are taking. I don't think it is in anyone's interest what they are advocating and I can't even see that it is in the interests of any trans girls so I just cannot see any reason for doing it at all.
I don't agree with some of the arguments put forward on here either.

Some of the demands, like removing crimes committed while a man being removed from the DBS are just outrageous and I hope are never agreed to.

There are many things about this issue that I am against but I don't agree with many of the arguments or the tone or the language that is used by those who are against it either.

Molokonono · 23/09/2018 18:30

I'm not down loading a pdf document from an unknown source.

Yes if you click on the link it opens the portal.

Molokonono · 23/09/2018 18:33

I don't agree with many of the arguments or the tone or the language that is used by those who are against it either.

Some people on here are sick to fucking death of patiently explaining why penises hidden in female spaces is a bad thing.

If you don't understand that then why the fuck are you bothering?

It has been the basis of social engagement in the UK for a fucking century. It is not rocket science.

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 18:33

Fair enough. Google NEU sexism in schools ‘it’s just everywhere’.

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 18:36

I too used to be upset at the ‘tone’ of some posters. I now realise the angrier they are, the longer they’ve been aware of these issues while everyone else was in blissful ignorance.

Lazypoolday · 23/09/2018 18:47

This thread is based on the premise that trans people are predatory peadophiles.

No. It's based on the premise that predatory paedophiles will take advantage of self ID to gain access to children. Especially as it appears that previous names do not have to be disclosed to the organisation when a background check is being done. Can anyone explain why they think this isn't putting children at risk?

CosmicCanary · 23/09/2018 18:57

That risk is there regardless of whether they are only boys, only girls or mixed sex.

The risk of pregnancy in an all FEMALE group is ZERO.
Christ how stupid are people??

Molokonono · 23/09/2018 18:59

The risk of pregnancy in an all FEMALE group is ZERO. Christ how stupid are people

It is baffling. Utterly baffling.