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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

821 replies

Angryresister · 23/09/2018 06:32

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

OP posts:
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11
BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 16:40

Totally agree @rainbowsandsmiles.

Even if I agree with some points I end up disagreeing completely because of the language and other attitudes being expressed.

There seems to be no middle ground and if you ask why the answer is it's not up to women to solve men's problems.

Except I don't see it as men's problems. I see it as society's problems and women are members of that society as are our children and our wider friends and families. None of us exist as a single entity.

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 16:43

Anybody got any thoughts on who’s liable when an underage pregnancy occurs because two children of different biological sexes but the same ‘gender’ were sharing a room?

That is one issue if, and it's a big if, a trans girl does join.

What if two girls embark on a lesbian relationship whilst on camp? Is that an issue too? If so, what safeguards are in place to stop that? If it isn't an issue, why isn't it?

Elephantinacravat · 23/09/2018 16:47

Also says best practice not to tell the other youngsters unless the trans person agrees. So how do GG see that working then? A person that other guides think is a girl appears in the shower looking like a boy? And they don't see that as affecting any of the young people involved? The trans girl included?

This also goes back to this thing of girl's embarrassment and boundaries actually being controlled by the feelings of a male.

So if a male bodied teenager who said he was a boy was in the showers with them, they would be 'allowed' to feel embarrassed, uncomfortable, ask that he leaves.

If that same male bodied teenager claims he is actually a 'girl' then those girls are no longer allowed to feel embarrassed or uncomfortable, not allowed to ask him to leave, they are the ones with the problem.

What exactly is the difference in the two scenarios as far as the girls are concerned?

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 16:53

BrownPaperTeddy

Please tell me you don’t think Lesbian sex might result on pregnancy? Confused

PositivelyPERF · 23/09/2018 16:56

Silly me. Now I see what’s happening. Shouts of BIGOT and TERF no longer shut women up, so now we’re going to be accused of saying all trans people are paedophiles. Not one poster on these threads have claimed that. You’re just grasping for insults to throw at us, because the old insults no longer work.

Ignoring the obvious risk of a predatory Male pretending to be a transwoman to gain access to women and girls, what about the actual females feelings? If a group of young girls don’t want to share female spaces with a young boy who says he’s trans, whose comfort and dignity levels should be put first?

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 17:00

What exactly is the difference in the two scenarios as far as the girls are concerned?

Maybe no difference or possibly worse if the young girl sees the trans girl as female ie isn't aware of their status and who is then confronted by a male body. I can imagine the shock of that possibly being worse than if you know that the person next to you is male.

Even if GG aren't worried about the girls though (which I am not saying is right) even from the point of view of the trans girl how can it be right? Surely the trauma that they face by revealing their body in the shower and the potential reactions of the girls etc risks doing emotional harm to them too?

So it seems that GG haven't actually got the interests of anyone at heart?

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 17:00

Lurkers May be interested to know that that the scenario ‘same gender, different biological sex’ sharing accommodation overnight is one of the exemptions in the Equalities Act for providing single SEX services. So GG’s policy is in fact illegal.

I find the ‘but what about Lesbians’ argument deeply homophobic and offensive.

drspouse · 23/09/2018 17:01

@brown well that's nice in theory but not if you have 2 adults, 10 girls and one has an accident.
I can rarely get more than one other adult to help.

CosmicCanary · 23/09/2018 17:02

What if two girls embark on a lesbian relationship whilst on camp? Is that an issue too? If so, what safeguards are in place to stop that? If it isn't an issue, why isn't it?

This is a relationship which may result in some emotional upset....but it will never result in pregnancy you absolute idiot.

Molokonono · 23/09/2018 17:03

It's quite a widely held belief on here that trans women are men

What is happening to transform these men into women exactly? Apart from their say so?

That is one issue if, and it's a big if, a trans girl does join.

Nobody would know if a trans girl joined. That is the point.

What if two girls embark on a lesbian relationship whilst on camp? Is that an issue too?

Lesbians don't have penises - you know that.

Women campaigned to have female spaces and you are willing to just throw that away because some men said so?

And your argument is that lesbians exist so by extension, men are safe? Really?

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 17:04

@IAmLurkacus

Please tell me you don’t think Lesbian sex might result on pregnancy?

No. Where did I say that?

Do you think that the only danger of under age sex is pregnancy?

It seems to me that the potential of pregnancy is a red herring. The possibility of underage sex does not only occur between boys and girls does it?

If my 12 or 13 year old girl was going on guide camp I wouldn't want to think that she was going to have a sexual encounter of any sort - with either boy or girl.

Just wondering how that is guarded against?

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 17:06

This is a relationship which may result in some emotional upset....but it will never result in pregnancy you absolute idiot.

Well quite

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 17:07

This is a relationship which may result in some emotional upset....but it will never result in pregnancy you absolute idiot.

Is a sexual relationship between a 15 year old girl and a 13 year old girl not as illegal as between a 15 year old boy and a 13 year old girl then?

In which case it might well result in a bit more than "some emotional upset" don't you think?

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 17:07

So we now have rampant homophobia on this thread? Has the racism started yet?

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 17:09

Sorry. How on earth is it homophobic?

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 17:10

It's homophobic to say two children, under the age of consent, shouldn't be having sex is it?

rainbowsandsmiles · 23/09/2018 17:10

Thought nope, I'm not being on any "side" that's having any of that.

Yes, because It’s illegal to have nuanced opinions on the matter or disagree in any way with anyone on the same ‘side’ as you

It's a sliding scale, isn't it - when there's a lot of posters at the extreme end and you're agreeing with the same things they come out with (just not as extreme as them) you get a" WTF am I doing?!" moment. Somebody saying "nah got a problem with them all" tends to make you think. Well, it did me anyway as I like to read on both sides.

MissGiddyPants · 23/09/2018 17:11

Am I alone in thinking that if I was confronted by a boy at Guide camp 'living as a girl and wanting to do girly activities' my first reaction would be to laugh?

Probably why I am best kept away from children.

rainbowsandsmiles · 23/09/2018 17:13

It's homophobic to say two children, under the age of consent, shouldn't be having sex is it?

Must admit I'm a bit Confused at that too - no-one under the age of 16 should be having sex in this country, it's got nothing to do with homophobia and everything to do with being underage! Male and female doing the deed would be too.

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 17:13

I find it homophobic because you’re derailing with ‘what about lesbians’ rather than answering my perfectly valid question about who would be liable in the event of an underage pregnancy.

Underage pregnancy carries a risk of death, Im unaware anyone has ever died of underage Lesbian sex.

If you are concerned about underage lesbian sex at guide camp why don’t you email them about that and ask? and try not to sound homophobic

rainbowsandsmiles · 23/09/2018 17:14

MissGiddyPants - yes, maybe best you aren't if your reaction is to laugh at people just minding their own business and being them.

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 17:16

It's homophobic to use lesbians as some kind of 'bogeyman' comparable to males. It happens all the time on threads about single sex spaces- in fact it was done earlier on a another thread by an apparent GG leader. Lesbians and black women seem to be the go to for those who argue for males in female spaces. It's fucking offensive.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 23/09/2018 17:17

I was a wussy kid and I would have been terrified.

When I was about 10 we went on a school trip and a dad came along. He was a bit 'friendly' and came into the girls room unannounced a couple of times at getting ready for bed time 😒. One girl fell over ice skating and he rubbed her bottom better.😡

We thought he was a bit creepy but because he was a) adult, b) man, c) a doctor we couldn't say anything to him or the teachers. Plus we were a polite lot. Jesus, these days...!

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 17:17

Thanks TwistedStitch that’s what I was getting at and a clearer explanation than mine.

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 17:19

@IAmLurkacus

Silly me.

I was forgetting that we are only allowed to talk about certain points, sanctioned by certain posters.