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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that I should be told if my daughters girl guiding leader is actually a man.

821 replies

Angryresister · 23/09/2018 06:32

Apparently it is policy now to not give parents information about male people who self identify as women ,as leaders, or the information that a boy will now be part of the group. This goes against all safeguarding procedures and there will be a major scandal when dangerous preditors take advantage of this policy to get to access girls . The organisation is also sacking volunteers who raise questions. There seem to be fewer and fewer girl only activities available these days

OP posts:
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11
Ghanagirl · 23/09/2018 15:42

@walkingdeadfangirl

If you want the girl guides to start informing parents about trans men or women, then they should also inform them of their political persuasion, skin colour, country of birth, nationality, vaccination history, history of depressions/self harm, relationship status, homo/heterosexual, education results, job history, benefit status, salary, religious beliefs, voting record, remainer or leaver, and any other factor that you dont want your daughter exposed to
You’re being ridiculous none of the above is Safegarding relevant, it’s to do with personal preference and or predjudice.
A person self identifying as a woman with male genitalia which is capable of sexual activity is not suitable to be in a teenage girls changing room particularly if they or their parents are unaware, it’s just unacceptable.
Plus if trans activists have thier way any crime committed before transitioning “outs them” it should be wiped, that’s not equality it’s trans rights above women and children.

jellyfrizz · 23/09/2018 15:42

Thought nope, I'm not being on any "side" that's having any of that.

Yes, because It’s illegal to have nuanced opinions on the matter or disagree in any way with anyone on the same ‘side’ as you.

Aeroflotgirl · 23/09/2018 15:43

Yes so the leaders could be sleeping in the same room as girls. So a biological male leader who self Id as a Woman, could be sharing a room with girls and their parents not know. This leader could have committed a sexual offence under their biological sex name or be wiped clean as they now self id as a woman.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 23/09/2018 15:43

Of course. Those nasty little girls being so horrid to boys and men.

Could this be something to do with girls knocking on the door for so long to be allowed into traditional male domains and men only clubs? Have the men just decided to push back and show them who's boss?

rainbowsandsmiles · 23/09/2018 15:43

Exactly as in there's more than one that has a lot of prejudice to trans in general, not just self ID that should say - pressed too soon.

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 15:44

BrownTeddy are you aware that there are a great deal of transwomen including many who have undergone surgery who acknowledge that they are still male? I'm not sure what is 'sad' about recognising reality.

rainbowsandsmiles · 23/09/2018 15:46

Since when do leaders stay in the same tents as the guides anyway? They don't.
Admittedly I'm old but they never did when I was a Brownie and a Guide, they were in separate tents.
If they're so dangerous as well, why are girls allowed to be cubs or Scouts now? There's several girls in Cubs and Scouts where I am.
They have male scout leaders.

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 15:47

@drspouse

I haven't read all of the guidelines but interestingly it specifically mentions male and female helpers and says eg male helpers and children must have separate sleeping areas.

Given that, how do they reconcile self ID?

Seems if male/female no longer matters in self ID the logical argument is that it doesn't matter full stop.

Quite an odd stance that they are taking.

jellyfrizz · 23/09/2018 15:49

Quite an odd stance that they are taking.

It’s what happens when you confuse sex and gender.

drspouse · 23/09/2018 15:51

@rainbowsandsmiles READ THE MANUAL. I just linked to it.
Teddy apparently that's different.

BoneyBackJefferson · 23/09/2018 15:57

I do wonder if self ID is going to be this generations recovered memory,

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 15:58

The guidelines allow male teenagers to share sleeping, changing and bathroom facilities with female teenagers rainbow.

SparklyUnicornPoo · 23/09/2018 16:05

drspouse Not at Rainbow age you can't, there must be at least 2 adults regardless of the number of girls.

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 16:05

The guidelines allow male teenagers to share sleeping, changing and bathroom facilities with female teenagers rainbow.

I'm assuming that this hasn't happened as yet because self ID hasn't been accepted?

What safeguards are in place to stop same sex sexual encounters from happening at camps or residentials? Or are they viewed as being ok?

drspouse · 23/09/2018 16:09

Sparkly there must be two adults at a meeting but if one girl needs help, you can't leave the other girls alone in the hall and you can't pile 18 of them into the loo so you take another girl in the loo.
Or one adult in the kitchen and one in the main hall for split activities.

drspouse · 23/09/2018 16:11

Brown we are allowed to discuss any sexual relationships that might happen if we think they might. Whether that's between girls or between a girl and a Scout on a joint camp.
But this is keeping leaders in the dark.

TwistedStitch · 23/09/2018 16:13

These are current guidelines BrownTeddy. The only thing that matters is the comfort and wishes of the young trans person. There is no safeguarding which is kind of the issue. And with teenagers it will always be a case of self ID because they are too young to have met the criteria for a GRC.

titchy · 23/09/2018 16:23

And your daughters do share shower facilities with men every day - your DHs.

Not at the same time you numpty.

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 16:28

Reading their guidelines really is as clear as mud.

It kind of reads that trans girls will prefer to change, sleep and shower in separate facilities (or it's at least strongly hinted at) but then goes on to say that it is up to the young person to choose where they will be most comfortable.

Also says best practice not to tell the other youngsters unless the trans person agrees. So how do GG see that working then? A person that other guides think is a girl appears in the shower looking like a boy? And they don't see that as affecting any of the young people involved? The trans girl included?

Interestingly they do also say that any guide can ask for separate facilities if that is what they want. Wonder how that will work?

Just reading the GG twitter page about the speak out badge. It is not going well for them.

Goth237 · 23/09/2018 16:29

The attitude and prejudice on this thread is awful. YABCU. Go and spread your hatred and poison elsewhere. I'm glad to see not everyone is so quick to assume trans=paedophile... I hope you're ashamed of yourselves.

BrownPaperTeddy · 23/09/2018 16:32

Sparkly there must be two adults at a meeting but if one girl needs help, you can't leave the other girls alone in the hall and you can't pile 18 of them into the loo so you take another girl in the loo.

I would be very very loathe to do this as an adult, for my own safeguarding.

I think it's very risky to rely on another child to be witness to the conduct of an adult.

I do actually think it's dangerous for the children to think that it is ok for an adult to touch a child with only another child there as a witness.

rainbowsandsmiles · 23/09/2018 16:33

I support the Guides too. Nice to see a bit of balance when this is discussed on AIBU as opposed to the feminist boards.

I was just thinking the same, it's interesting that you get any hate challenged more when out on the main boards and not in the feminism ones. On there there's only one way to post and think as a woman - if it goes against the grain you're rounded on.
Nice to see balance as you say.

IAmLurkacus · 23/09/2018 16:36

Anybody got any thoughts on who’s liable when an underage pregnancy occurs because two children of different biological sexes but the same ‘gender’ were sharing a room?

BoneyBackJefferson · 23/09/2018 16:36

Goth237

I'm sorry that you feel that all people should be #nodebate on this.
Self ID should be debated.
Children being advised to go on hormone blockers without counselling should be debated
Groups that lie about transitioning should be debated
And Groups that believe that safeguarding procedures should be sidelines (both in the case of adults and children) should be debated.