Ungrateful f#cker!

[LostPuppy]

Am I being unreasonable?

Ok here's how it works.

I get up around 6.40 every morning and have a bath, shave and get dressed. Then around 7 I get the boys up, make their breakfast, make my own breakfast, empty the dishwasher, make my lunch, then get the 2 year old dressed, change his nappy and clean his and his elder brother's teeth and wash their faces. Whilst this goes on DW has a bath and makes the bed.

This morning I got delayed (putting the bins out) so didn't have time to change and dress DS2. When I said I wouldn't be able to do it, I thought I'd be helpful and put the breakfast dishes in the dishwasher, a 30 second job unlike changing and dressing that takes 5 minutes or more.

Rather than be grateful for this, DW sarcastically remarked "oh you've got time for that but not to get him dressed have you"!

Well frankly f#ck you was what I thought. I was running late and was trying to be kind, but all I get is abuse. I couldn't be much more helpful in the mornings. I am tempted to work to rule and just get myself ready for work rather that feed and dress the three of us.

Personally I wouldn't dream of criticising in such a manner if the roles were reversed and all I'd done was have a bath and made a bed. It hardly makes the person getting the children ready for school feel appreciated does it.

Another example of what lawyers might call "unreasonable behaviour" is this. Occasionally I'll forget to give DS2 his fish oil, but rather than say to him, "did dad give your IQ" and just give him a sachet if the answer is no, she'll be like "how many more times has this happened" and start a row in front of the boys.

I just feel like no matter what I do it isn't good enough. If DS1 has had porridge and made a bit of a mess she'll criticise me for not completely clearing up. If that was me I'd have thanked her in my head for feeding him and simply got out the kitchen roll or a sponge and in 10 seconds the mess is gone, but she'll seemingly seethe about this and give me a hard time for it

Am I being unreasonable not to expect abuse? Sounds to me like I'm being taken for granted.

This isnt to say that DW doesn't work bloody hard by the way! She cooks, cleans and generally parents whilst I am out at work. But the point is I often thank her for this and never criticise. Its a job I dont think I'd have the patience for. But if I think something isn't right I'll say something when the boys are in bed, not start a row in front of them!

Frankly I'm just whipped aren't I!

6 and 2

I must admit I'm a bit like this too. dh is usually down at breakfast before me, and I often criticise him.

I do think that there is an element of me being mean/picky/naggy etc, but on the other hand I think that if I did breakfast I would sweep the floor/load the dishwasher/wipe blobs of porridge etc etc, and quite frankly the kitchen isn't like it is when I have finished a meal (this is turning into a rant ).

Probably it is a mixture of you not living up to your dws standards, and her/you feeling overwhelmed with children etc and forgetting your feelings - I know I am like this after hours alone with the dcs.
I would suggest going out together and speaking about things over a glass of wine and away from the drudgery and chaos. It is very difficult to get away from a blame situation though.

Okay... I'm at a bit of a loss. You're obviously a well educated man who is willing to admit that there are two sides to the story, so this is why I don't understand your comment here:

"Remember this is a Mars and Venus thing too, a woman says 'why didnt you give him his IQ sachet', a man hears 'you;re a worthless imbecile and couldnt do a job properly if your life depended on it', whereas she just means 'why didnt you give him his IQ sachet'"

If you KNOW this is a mars-venus thing and understand WHY you don't take your wife's comments the way they are intended, then can't you take this understanding a tiny step forward and try not to take offence when all she wants is an answer? No-one is completely above criticism, after all.

Xenia, Eventually I did not put up with it. I think when I realised that everyone else was always going to come second for him, he reserved first place for himself - always. I stopped being agreeable and I lost interest/respect for him as a person - it all fell apart remarkably rapidly. It is interesting what happens when the dynamic changes.

Cascara, very well put. I think that's so. I'd actually rather that more stay at home parents and working parents were happy with their choices actually. It's the guilt thing which I don't have and which seems to spoil so many women's lives. Ditch the guilt and be happy.

On the thread, yes, everyone likes to be appreciated and no one likes to be criticised. Every married couple have difficult periods and if you've under 5s that the hardest stage of your entire life in my view so you need a bit of tolerance on both sides.

On the original routine here it isn't too different from how ours was except we had to get 5 children up, changed, breakfast to catch for the older 3 school coaches at 7.45am and then go on to work and get the babies home to their nanny. The different here is the mother is then home all day. If that is the case why not do the teeth after breakfast which is probably better anyway and let her do it? they could wash faces after breakfast too and why not the wife do the dishwasher during the day when she's home? It just seems you're cramming things into that early part of the day as 2 working parents would have to do but presumably not having to do that is one of hte plus points of having a non working spouse.

oh bananabump, if only it were that simple

The point of mars and venus is that men are incapable of not being men and vice versa.

no matter how much I know not to take criticism personally i always do

Well... if you can't change your own attitude, then you have two choices:

1. Get better at everything you do
2. Forbid her from ever criticising you again.

Not read all the responses but if my DH did as much as you I'd be delighted. I do all those things and then go out to work - DH has to go out earlier so does nothing. Much like the rest of the day really

However .... when DH does do things I have to bit my tongue because he doesn't ever clear up after himself. Ever! And I've had the discussion - politely and not so politely, and it makes no difference. As far as I'm concerned a job isn't done until there is no sign of it being done - ifswim. But I usually only carp and whinge if I'm tired or stressed (more than usual I mean ). Perhaps you could sit down and ask her what she wants you to do. Tell her that you are getting fed up and demotivated with the critisism.

i've tried to keep up with thw whole thread,but have a 5mth old distracting me...

you sound great.(but that in itself is patronising as would I say the same to a woman?thing is you're much more hands on than a lot of dads i know.my own DH is a star!) you are not being unreasonable to have a whinge about your DW. your OP could have been written by either me or my DH ,so thank you for helping me to realise that i can be an ungratful cow sometimes(as can my DH to be honest...or is he a mancow?).

lots of people(i think) have mentioned the "hardest ages" bit. True I guess(mine are 4yrs and 5mths, so how do I know?)

i think at times both DH and I are jealous of the other's life(i'm a p/t WM currently on mat leave. he's full time WD.we share housework) i get snappy about things not being done the way I have envisaged(but not verbalised) and DH(when stupidly tired) started a ridiculous argument with me last week about not unpacking some boxes in the way he wanted.

you give me the impression that you're a solid partnership as you've defended your dw when people have been disparaging(sp?) of her.

as someone said, have a talk with her.
it must be quite tough being a working dad these days. so many others do seem to "work to rule" but keep the flag flying for those families who are muddling through with the set up you've got.

ps there's no guarantee I won't be make on here at a later point as the author of a "am i being unreasonable...he's left milk and cereal to dry into the kitchen table and the baby went out in socks that clashed with his t shirt" threads

back on here not make... ??????

Haven't read the entire thread, but when my DH does something, he sort of half-does it, whereas in my opinion, 'anything worth doing is worth doing well'.
So, for eg, if he were to feed our toddler, I would expect him to clean up after that as well. That's the full job done. And that's what I would have done. So I am guilty of 'tsk-ing and tutting', because, the way I see it, if he half-does the job, I would be the one who will have to complete it, so in a way, what's the point of him doing it then?

Lostpuppy, I commented on it because you brought it up again. And I think you are wrong about the fish oil drops, if I said that to dh I'd mean 'why couldn't you even remember to give him his fish oil, FFS, do I have to do it ALL by myself' if I was in a bad mood.

spina speaks wise words. Obviousyl all parents whatever their gender and let's not forget there are lots of single sex couples with chidlren these days too, both should chip in when home and it's completely unacceptbale to say a man is "good" for "helping" when all he's doing is something a woman does. Women don't have innate desires or skills to clean floors or change nappies. My ex used to get very cross about how the dishwasher was stacked. People just have different views on things and you have to sort it out and everyone with under 5s is irritable with each other regularly. it's just normal life and marriage and then it gets better when suddenly like a cloud lifting the youngest is 5 or 6.

oh don't say that...about the lifted cloud...i'm planning number three when number too is five so that'll be 13 years of shitty moods with one another

Oh Lord, 8 years of non stop marital strive and i've got to do another 6 years?

My dp is always moaning at me for how I do housework - he once ticked me off for rinsing the dishes off as I went when I was washing up (he likes it done in one go at the end). Then a few months later, I caught him using my method of 'rinse as you go'. I suggested a bit of consistency wouldn't go amiss but got that look. I can't really say too much as it's his flat butI don't let him get away with criticising me unnecessarily. When I use the toilet rags to wash up, that's when he can carp at me. Until then he can either do it himself or let me get on with it my way.

At least none of you are in year 22 of motherhood - that's quite a long under 5s period we've had with 5 children.

On the way tasks are done I think when you're first together you just learn each other's preferences and methods and kind of come together with compromise. If one thinks strongly you never dry your hands on the tea towel and the other couldn't care less you move to the rule that pleases the one with the strongest views etc.

I look forward to seeing toilet rolls on the holder one day as it's almost a personal insult to me to see them sitting there on the cistern instead of on the holder - dp is quite happy to grab and go .

I might be waiting a long time though .

Wish I'd married you . It's refreshing to here that you also appreciate how hard the role of SAHM is. Seriously though it sounds like you both need to go out and spoil yourselves and talk about this away from the dc's. I'm sure that you will be able to discuss how she made (makes) you feel rationally and reasonably and hopefully she'll open up about how she feels too. My guess (speaking as a SAHM of 6yrs) is that she's probably starting to feel undervalued, losing her self-esteem (I know I did) - nothing that you've done or said and that the little things that you do make all the difference. Is there anyway she could take a part-time job just to give her some self-esteem back. Good luck.

I think it's all a bit 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. But it's a losing argument to say "well other men do less"... so??? THat doesn't make it right. She shouldn't have spoken to you abruptly but you shouldn't be expecting anything for doing stuff before you go to work. Simple evening discussion over in 5 secs of apologies all round in my book.

But looking at this from your wife's POV, going to work is a BREAK from the the children. So no matter that your hours are the same - she is a mum 24/7, no time out and your brain juggles everything. Therefore she shouldn't have to be grateful for anything you do for your children when you are both in the home together - you're their father. And in my book in 2007 that means equal parenting and equal domestic tasks for the times that you are both at home. And as she doesn't get time out naturally by going to work this needs to be built in (like the morning bath) else quite frankly she'll go nuts. I second the suggestion you guys take some time out away from the kids, have a chat, realise how much you appreciate each other, complement each other in what you do etc and move on.

Hope she's not a member of mumsnet else you'll be buying a lot of flowers...

A very interesting thread.

Lost Puppy your dw sounds just like me! I even had a moment of paranoia while reading your posts that DH had discovered MN by himself!

I will however say a few things from my perspective... they've pretty much already been covered but I would like to add my bit... so here goes:

1. First thing in the morning I am vile. I'm a bubbly and friendly person the rest of the day and only DH and the poor DDs know the morning me. Since having children I've found mornings especially difficult. I had terrible insomnia after dd1 and although the condition has vastly improved, my sleep has not been the same since. Despite the dds sleeping through these days I haven't slept through the night since I was pregnant with dd1. Hence every morning I feel grumpy and sleep deprived. It's not the best start to the day and I think you are doing the best for your wife by giving her a little space in which to collect her thoughts before the day begins.

2. I was not genetically programmed to enjoy housework. I hate it. However I was programmed to be a tidy freak. I am a perfectionist and as many other posters have said, a job worth doing is a job worth doing well. Whenever DH has the children on his own the house looks as if a bomb has struck. Any lasting feelings of space and freedom escape me as soon as I walk trough the door to find the house in a mess. It brings me back to earth with a crash. I either have to a) nag or b) drudge it. Being a drudge is deeply unsexy. Picking pants up off the floor, cleaning up poo and mopping up spilt potties is to me, a former highly-paid Marketing Manager, brain-draining, dispiriting and basically crap. Why? because women these days have higher expectations of themselves. We don't all relish the servile crap that goes with looking after children. So you can partly blame your dw's attitude as a by-product of today's have it all society. Just don't blame her for being unreasonable in wanting to be a fragment of her former glamorous self.

3. Don't expect a knighthood for your troubles. Parenthood is a shared responsibility and I believe that husbands who expect their wives to do it all should go back to the cave they crawled out of. Likewise, I don't think women should stand for it either. Like it or not, and I'm speaking as someone who has done both, looking after under fives is infinitely more draining than a day in the office. Remember that if your wife did do it all, she would have to work a twelve plus hour day. Hardly fair is it?

Finally, arguing in front of the children isn't that big a crime IMO. Don't chastise her for it. It's very hard to find time for civilised conversations while young dcs are about. I saw my parents argue all the time and it didn't harm me - made me realise that feelings are there to be expressed!

I totally agree with all the posters on here who have said you need to find time to do something nice together - dh and I often talk about our expectations of each other and we vent a lot of frustrations during these conversations. Do it over a nice meal though, away from the dcs. Make her feel special. I bet she feels a pent-up mixture of guilt for the fact you work (because it's a more tangible task that SAHM-dom), grief for the person she once was, anger for the fact she nowadays feels like a slave and insecurity that she no longer looks and feels like the hot totty you married.

Good luck, you are doing a good job - both of you!

I think Xenia made a good point earlier when she said it seems like you're trying to cram things into the start of the day which could be left til a bit later. Tbh, your thread read to me like the typical start of the day for two working parents - not the start I would expect when one is a SAHM. You are not being unreasonable - you recognise that parenting is a difficult job, and you respect your wife, but it sounds as though she's not recognising your pressures. Yes, I know parenting is a 24 hour job, but that DOESN'T mean that a working parent has it any easier - I mean, they go out and do a day's work and then come home to the other job of parenting. Are you and your wife fundamentally happy with the roles you have? Would you prefer to have more time at home with your children? Because I sometimes think in these situations there's an underlying resentment on one or both sides- and tbh the best solution is to try to equalise your roles more. That's the only real way of gaining an understanding of the pressures. Speaking as a WOHM with a WOH partner,I'd say if your wife was having to get herself off to a demanding job after this morning routine, perhaps she'd be a bit more appreciative of all you're doing!

you are not being unreasonable at all lostpuppy.

quite frankly, as a single parent of two kids the fact that someone makes me a cup of coffee brightens my day, let alone anything else!

LostPuppy
I think you sound like you are doing your best.If she wishes to treat you that way then you need to speak up and tell her enough.Leave her to do everything one morning and then see how she likes it.Tell her that if you are doing such a rotten job then she can do it herself to make sure that it gets done right.
A relationsip is about supporting each other not one doing this and the other doing that and then one getting criticised.If she's a SAHM then yes she prob does have a hard day but by the sounds of things so do you.
You sound like a guy who is tyrying his best and getting kicked...well somewhere anyway.I hope she learns to appreciate you as you obv do her