Ungrateful f#cker!

[LostPuppy]

Am I being unreasonable?

Ok here's how it works.

I get up around 6.40 every morning and have a bath, shave and get dressed. Then around 7 I get the boys up, make their breakfast, make my own breakfast, empty the dishwasher, make my lunch, then get the 2 year old dressed, change his nappy and clean his and his elder brother's teeth and wash their faces. Whilst this goes on DW has a bath and makes the bed.

This morning I got delayed (putting the bins out) so didn't have time to change and dress DS2. When I said I wouldn't be able to do it, I thought I'd be helpful and put the breakfast dishes in the dishwasher, a 30 second job unlike changing and dressing that takes 5 minutes or more.

Rather than be grateful for this, DW sarcastically remarked "oh you've got time for that but not to get him dressed have you"!

Well frankly f#ck you was what I thought. I was running late and was trying to be kind, but all I get is abuse. I couldn't be much more helpful in the mornings. I am tempted to work to rule and just get myself ready for work rather that feed and dress the three of us.

Personally I wouldn't dream of criticising in such a manner if the roles were reversed and all I'd done was have a bath and made a bed. It hardly makes the person getting the children ready for school feel appreciated does it.

Another example of what lawyers might call "unreasonable behaviour" is this. Occasionally I'll forget to give DS2 his fish oil, but rather than say to him, "did dad give your IQ" and just give him a sachet if the answer is no, she'll be like "how many more times has this happened" and start a row in front of the boys.

I just feel like no matter what I do it isn't good enough. If DS1 has had porridge and made a bit of a mess she'll criticise me for not completely clearing up. If that was me I'd have thanked her in my head for feeding him and simply got out the kitchen roll or a sponge and in 10 seconds the mess is gone, but she'll seemingly seethe about this and give me a hard time for it

Am I being unreasonable not to expect abuse? Sounds to me like I'm being taken for granted.

This isnt to say that DW doesn't work bloody hard by the way! She cooks, cleans and generally parents whilst I am out at work. But the point is I often thank her for this and never criticise. Its a job I dont think I'd have the patience for. But if I think something isn't right I'll say something when the boys are in bed, not start a row in front of them!

Frankly I'm just whipped aren't I!

In your OP you say "I think I shall work to rule" - what rule is that then?

I think you need to lose the 'she should be grateful' attitude ('Criticising your spouse when they are doing fairly tankless and shitty tasks is likely to make them consider such offers'). There are no medals for looking after your own kids. However, dh and I do say 'thanks' to each other when we are helping each other out. But it's a shared responsibility.

I'm a grumpy sod in the mornings but it works out because dh is grumpy in the evenings. Although that could be where we are going wrong, given we don't actually see each other in the middle except at weekends.

Work to rule is an expression you dont hear much these days, it comes from industrial action where workers do the bare minimum to make a protest but not be fired

Check this link

Edam, same reply as to Caroline.

Sorry, got so excited about embedding a link forgot to make my point. That work to rule in the context of a marriage is to do no more than you have to do without getting kicked out. ie at the moment I do loads to help, i could quite easily do bugger all like a lot of the 'dads' around us, but how long i could keep it up before she kicked me out or found a replacement is up for debate!

They think she wants it but at the back of her subconscious of course she'd prefer to work, to get the money, kudos and all the things Blu says. If you probe deeper you might find resentments about being home which could be solved by her working and you giving up work.

(C, don't think so; we never got on very well right from the start, sadly. We never argued about money or work or children though as like someone else said on the thread we did the normal thing when you're both home you share the domestic work and childcare. It's when the working man spends the weekends playing golf and thinks he gets 2 days off a week when his houswife wife works 7 days a week that huge unfairness slips in which no woman ought to tolerate)

"This, for me, is about knowing your husband and understanding that criticising him is not the way to make him want to carry on helping out as much as he does.

I'm not saying I want a medal, I just dont want to be told off like a child for getting a small detail wrong occasionally "

yes, this is the nub of it -it's about how you feel, not what you do or how well you do it.

Does she know how you feel when she does this? Conversely, Do you compliment her on her parenting? Talk, talk, talk!

I'm interested to hear what you think counts as criticism though, lostpuppy.

Sometimes when I try to explain to my dp WHY he's done a job badly I get accused of over-explaining and nagging, yet if I don't then how is he supposed to know why I'm annoyed, and how is he supposed to get better?

Perhaps she's snappy because she's tired of saying the same thing over and over, or because she's scared of making you flounce off in a strop if she does bring something up? (I have no idea, I can only speak from my own experience)

Perhaps try paying attention to the way she does things a bit more? or make yourself a list if you tend to forget things. Personally I'm trying to nag less and thank my dp more, but it means that I have to bite my tongue a LOT.

To be fair, and harking back to when my children were that small, your wife's reactions are probably a combination of a large number of different factors.

I am assuming (sorry have not read all thread) she stays at home with your little ones all day, having previously had a job. She is probably feeling slightly envious that you do these things she does all day every day, before going to work- ie you are perfectly capable of doing in a half hour what she has to do all day. Being alone with small wilful children all day can be unbelievably disempowering, and she is possibly dreading being left alone with them all day while you go out to have an adult life (and that seems like fun from the point of view of the person left at home).

She may be envious that you can still find all these things that you do in the morning fun, and are able to do them lightly when they seem like mountainous tasks. It may not be rational, but seeing the porridge smeared all over the kitchen table and toddler again for her to clear up is absolutely dispiriting. I am thinking possibly that she may be slightly depressed. This is not uncommon in young mothers at this stage.

I suppose that her small lie-in and bath in the morning are probably the only me-time she gets all day.

Her reactions are ot about how much you do. They are much more about her feelings of helplessness at the moment. I'd say that what she needs, really really needs is more me-time- maybe a weekend or even a week away alone, and regular dates alone with you. She needs to feel like an adult again, rather than just the mother of small of children.

It is a difficult situation for you, but you may have to take the lead in resolving it, and continue to love despite her seemingly unreasonable comments. Good luck to you, and good strength.

I have to say xenia, I have no idea what you do in your career but you're a very calm person, and no matter what anyone says about you you never take it as a personal attack or attack back at all, so kudos to you for that!

How do you stay so calm? Is it valium? (joking!)

I think a lot of this is to do with expectations. My DH is a tidy freak and everything must be in its place. Me, OTOH, can live with a book lying on the table for an afternoon rather than being in the bookcase.

I have my way of doing things and DH has his way. We know this because we have discussed it and so we compromise. I try to be more tidy and he tries to be more relaxed when the book does not go back on the shelf within 10 seconds of me having read it.

You need to find out why your DW is grumpy and she needs to explain why she is dissatisfied with your efforts.

As Blu said, talk, talk, talk.

Xenia gets top marks for not wasting time taking things personally. A quality in short supply, imo! Perhaps explains somee of her focus and clarity.

Xenia, Interesting. My ex husband was absolutely hopeless with the children and with chores, we had a real 1950s type marriage which we sort of fell into (in spite of the fact that I was the highest earner when child no. 1 was born!). It is perhaps no wonder that it all fell apart (though after almost 20 years) as we lived totally different lives, him travelling with a very well paid exciting job, coming home to base increasingly irregularly and wanting just to read the paper, be well fed and watered, entertained in orderly and tasteful surroundings and expecting the children to be impeccably behaved. Although, I did not resent him his successful life, he resented me my life and seemed to do everything possible to upset my equilibrium by being monstrously bad tempered with me, the children and his mother. This time round it has made me much more aware of the dangers of a couple living two disparate lives.

Absolutely. Quite agree. Recreational offense-taking is far too widespread in this country IMO, and there is a lack of genuine intellectual debate.

Agree with blu that communicating with your dw is the key. You need sheltered time for that - book a babysitter and a nice meal. Get out of the house, talk and reminise.

I can understand people need to feel appreciated. For men, it is very very important. I know my dh starts feeling demoralised when he gets criticised even though he is trying his darndest and it is not good enough for me - usually because I was stressed trying to hold the threads of my chores together and forgot to be kind to him. The best time to talk is not when it is crunch time (esp during the morning rush hour) but when you and dw are relaxed - so you can both see the humour in it.

Life is a great journey. Don't throw it away.

Maybe your DW feels a little pushed out by you running around doing so many jobs, can't seem to get a toehold in the mornings (is she a morning person?) and her way of expressing this frustration is to snap at you when you don't finish a job which comes across as ungratitude?

I think you need to sit down and address this. I agree you shouldn't fight in front of the kids and work out a parenting style that suits both of you.

I don't think work to rule is appropriate WRT housework or childcare - you are a parent just as much as your wife. If one parent was doing it all on their own all of the time, I can see the argument, but that's not the case.

The thing about your mentioning work to rule is that it seems you think you are doing your wife a favour, doing more than you 'should'. I'm not surprised your wife is moody - she's probably picked up your assumption that you deserve sainthood for getting the kids up. You are an adult taking responsibilty for your own children. That's not unfair or unreasonable.

Have a chat with your wife over a bottle of wine re morning routine and how to cope when it wobbles, is she pissed off about anything else and taking it out on you at what seems to you like the wrong moment.

(But why did you tolerate that, Caroline? That's what I don't get. Women (or men) who are really fed up with their husband (or wife) sitting around slobbishly when both are home whilst the other one is busy clearing up etc adn yes they moan about it but they let it happen, they sanction the behaviour.

In our marriage before we were even engaged he'd shown me his system for washig his shirts (and he had his own house which he cleaned and dealt with anyway) not that I married him for his laundry abilities but I wasn't surprised that once we got going in the marriage, both working, and we divided tasks he took on the rinsing, drying of the terry nappies (at one stage we had 3 children in them every night) whilst I did whatever else I did. We started from that basis of domestic equality which perhaps doesn't have that much to do with who works.

duch's points about how parents at home can feel are very pertinent. My solution is let the man who is cross about it and thinks "I don't have the patience for it" (which means I'm prepared to fob off this really dull unpaid work to this woman and ruin her career prospects in the process and because of her conditioning she will accept this sexist model) stay home and do that part if he wants a parent at home.

Why not be radical? Tonight suggest you'd like her to go back to full time work and you'll both together find someone really good to look after the children in your own home. I'm sure the whole family will be happier for that decision.

You sound lovely, and your DW is being unreasonable. Agree that you need to thrash out your concerns, maybe she doesn't realise what an effect her constant criticism is having on you.
at some of the comments, some of you are bit too quick to jump to defend this man's DW - sisterly solidarity taken a wee bit too far methinks.

Wow Lostpuppy, I'm in awe of how much you do!. My DH gets up later than I do even though he has to be at his desk by 7.15am. All he does is get himself showered and dressed (with a lot of blank staring into the middle distance going on). I don't really feel I need any help in the morning though as I don't find getting my three dressed and breakfasted by 8.20 too much of a chore and as a SAHM, I treat it as my job.

There's a difference between defending and putting forward helpful suggestions as to why the DW may be the way she is so LP can possibly gain a greater understanding which will help their relationship. Of course we could all cheerlead for him and tell him his wife is a lazy bitch but that's not really constructive is it?

I would say Xenia is very confident in her position which is why she doesn't take offence or get defensive. I don't feel the need to be defensive about my "SAHM" position because I feel it's right for me and my family, although I've come close to tipping point really. So Xenia making her statements doesn't upset me or make me defensive and want to attack her even though our points of view are opposite. In fact they could possibly be downright helpful for those women who don't want to stay at home but feel societal and/or message board pressure that they are forever harming their children if they don't.

I'm amazed at Squonk's point of view to be honest.
the whole I'm a SAHM and dp works full time so I don't expect him to do anything else.
My dh works full time - that's 37 hours a week. My week is far longer so yes I expect him to put kids to bed, do some housework, sometimes get kids up too.

You keep coming back to this point edam about me doing stuff 'as a favour' or 'to get thanks'.

I dont, I do it because 1-I can and 2-I know she appreciates it. And that's the point; I know she likes to be told that i appreciate what she does while I'm at work. We all need to feel appreciated, and when I get criticised I feel that I am not.

Remember this is a Mars and Venus thing too, a woman says 'why didnt you give him his IQ sachet', a man hears 'you;re a worthless imbecile and couldnt do a job properly if your life depended on it', whereas she just means 'why didnt you give him his IQ sachet'

Cascara, DW is neither lazy nor a bitch. She works damned hard and like most SAHMs much of this goes unnoticed and unappreciated.

I try to tell her how good she is on a regular basis, this whole situation is about roles being reversed and appreciating what HAS been done, not criticising small errors

Cascara - there has been a bit of both, the vast majority have offered helpful suggestions, including trying to look at it from her point of view, but there has been one or two posters who have had a bit of a kneejerk reaction to perceived criticism of LostPuppy's DW. If it was the wife complaining about the husband, you would see a few posters eagerly queuing up to slag said husband off.
Just out of interest, LostPuppy, how old are your DSs?