To ask why people are so critical/judgemental of vegans?

[abacucat]

Just wondering why?

@salemblackcat I had a look at the let them eat meat article but didn’t see any research in it. It agreed that veganism, even “consumer veganism” is better than the conventional diet. It was basically just a long winded “if you can’t be perfect, why even try?”.

Yes, of course meat eaters have ethics about all sorts of things, only a fool would say otherwise, but if their choice to eat meat is ethically based, why have I been patiently asking to have those ethics explained to me for the course of two threads?

As for the empowered sustenance article, before I even opened it I knew it would contain a reference to Weston A Price. Every article that says veganism isn’t healthy does. The Weston A Price Foundation is sponsored by the meat and dairy industry and this is not unbiased research.

Ok even if I take at face value the unsupported opinions in that article they are easily debunked:

1. A vegan diet never sustained any traditional culture- we don’t know this for sure but even if so we do know vegetarian diets have sustained cultures, are we promoting them? What about the blood and milk diet of the Masai? Should we adopt that? Or do we maybe have enough scientific capabilities to make decisions about what is healthy going forward without needing to look to the past and try to “eat like a cave man”?

1. Beta carotene

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17665093/

You can get vegan D3.
www.cytoplan.co.uk/high-potency-vegan-vitamin-d3-wholefood?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyei8p77R3QIVzbHtCh3YNwXpEAQYASABEgIgjPD_BwE

The statement you can only get D3 from animal products is false. As well as plant based supplements and fortified food you can get it from sunlight.

1. Soya- a whole other post is needed as to why this is proven again and again to be safe. But it’s not necessary to consume it on a vegan diet.

1. K2- this was interesting thanks I hadn’t heard of this one. It is also wrong. The body can make K2 from K1- see Thijssen HH, Drittij MJ, Vermeer C, Schoffelen E. Menaquinone-4 in breast milk is derived from dietary phylloquinone. Br J Nutr. 2002 Mar;87(3):219-26.

1. Environment- see studies above

1. Don’t like processed foods- ok eat a whole foods plant based diet then.

1. Vegan isn’t good if you have an auto immune disease- I don’t have one and neither do most people. Some people have had good results on their crohns with a vegan diet but I don’t profess to be an expert on medical conditions.

1. There’s always some harm- but shouldn’t we do the least?

1. B12 and iron- supplementation of the former and plant based sources of the latter taken with vit C to improve absorption

10. Omega 3- you can get this from algae which is what the fish eat.

@LakieLady what rare species would be lost if we were all vegan?

I think @LakieLady is referring to cows.

Tbh I couldn't care less if cows did die out.

B12 is the sticking point. You have to be minimally educated and in a moderately rich country to buy supplements.
B12 deficientcy is horrible and dangerous.
You simply cannot foist veganism on some people as it will lead to serious health issues.
I eat a plant based diet but you have to be careful and totally on top of it to avoid deficiencies. Plant iron sources are less easy to absorb. Would you trust a teenager or someone with limited resources and time to ensure that they were getting enough?

why do meat eaters rave about meat then at a buffet demolish the veggie option leaving the veggies with only the meat? Happened YET AGAIN yesterday at a party. I was starved as was my eldest who is also a veggie. So lets add, fanatical meat eaters are often hypocrites and rude to boot.

I don't particularly 'rave about meat' @mousetapdances, though I do enjoy it, I would tend towards the veggie options at a buffet. Why on earth would that make me a rude hypocrite? Are people who eat meat only allowed to eat meat? I eat meat and animal products that I am confident has been raised to high welfare standards, so I'm not going to eat cheap, factory farmed meat that I've no idea of the provenance of (ie what's likely to be in a buffet). What gives you more of a right to the vegetable dishes than a non-vegetarian/vegan?

I think veganism has become increasingly part of the new "virtue signalling" culture.

Also some vegan things like soy milk are actually highly industrially produced foods. Almond milk has a carbon footprint like no other.

However, bizarrly perhaps, I have a lot of respect for people who really try and do something about the way animals are kept - chickens in cages etc.

why do meat eaters rave about meat then at a buffet demolish the veggie option leaving the veggies with only the meat? Happened YET AGAIN yesterday at a party. I was starved as was my eldest who is also a veggie. So lets add, fanatical meat eaters are often hypocrites and rude to boot.
How do you know it's the meat eaters who are scoffing all the veggie options,do you ask them?

@mmor dairy has a carbon footprint bigger than almond milk.

It was a chocolate cake. Not a faux mixed grill or a vegan substitute for anything, if I was making a non-vegan cake and had ran out of eggs I'd have put an alternative to them in, too
It's the word 'vegan' that makes people hiss I think. And no it was a friend of my sister's who did this. I'd never met him before

Quote from the comments section of Tesco's tomato/sweet potato soup recipe:
"This is a fantastic soup. I left out the cheddar cheese, so I could enjoy it completely guilt free, happy in the knowledge that no animals had been harmed in order to produce my meal. Of course I seasoned to taste It is also delicious if you add a spoonful of peanut butter at the end for added protein and flavour. Thank you for sharing this recipe Nana!!"
Virtue-signalling at its best. Tedious, uncalled for and out of place. Such a plonker. Is it any wonder people get fed up?

@Biologifemini can you trust a teenager to get adequate vitamin k, vitamin A, zinc, magnesium, selenium etc etc. Not all diets are balanced diets but it’s only a plant based one that is scrutinised. We all need to get more educated about where our food comes from and what our body needs from food. B12 supplements are very cheap and easy to use. There’s lots of vegan food that’s fortified with b12 as well.

who's critical of vegans?

@Katvic why do you care about this review? Is virtue signalling the new buzzword? It was moral superiority we got accused of (in a general sense, I’ve never been accused of virtue signalling or being morally superior in real life) when I started out as a vegan.

I really don’t care if people know I’m vegan so I’m not doing it to virtue signal but I do advocate for animals. I don’t do this to people who aren’t interested though, only those who ask. I don’t go on posts here about sausages and start talking about pig farming (and I’ve never seen any other vegan do this) but I will go on posts about veganism and correct misinformation or answer questions. If that makes me preachy I don’t care.

Its become the new 'vegetarian' and I was one of those for 12yrs and wasnt an issue as I didnt shout about it or stick my opinions down peoples throats. One of my friends has suddenly found herself and stopped drinking and has gone vegan. I have the torrent of FB nonsense with dead animals etc. I have the your drinking pus when dairy milk is discussed. I have no issue with peoples choices just dont stick them down my throat when I am out or getting my bloody haircut

My ex-MIL was a social occasions-only vegan. She just could not fight her smoked salmon habit at home, but god how difficult was she looking for signs of cross-contamination when invited somewhere.

I have a big conflict with ex regarding the children being brought up vegan. Just can't face the whole ideology now, and I have a suspicion our current litigation will end up as case law on the matter.

kikisparks I don’t do this to people who aren’t interested though, only those who ask Exactly. And that's fine.

But in that review, no one had asked. It was completely out of the blue, just to assert some kind of moral superiority.

Personal choices on food and religion etc are just that.

You choose your own God and food and I'll choose mine.

But the minute you start ramming your choices down my throat, I'll tell you to fuck off.

Well exactly you cannot trust a teenager to get certain nutrients. However some you need in tiny amounts so unless they are eating only beige food they are probably ok.
B12 isn’t in plant based food at all so you need to be vigilant.

I have no judgement on vegans. But one once told me I was a nazi for eating meat...

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll but we can prioritise our existence over other organisms while still endeavouring to do the least harm to other animals.

I prioritise humans over animals but I don’t need to eat animals to do that.

@NutElla5x but it doesn’t mean more meat and cheese for you because that’s not how supply and demand works.

@MsRinky I think you’re spot on. I’m teetotal too and I don’t like to tell anyone because I think it makes people annoyed just to hear it. I think you’re right that people dislike those who they think think they’re “better”, even though I don’t think I’m better in any way on either front and in relation to alcohol am really not bothered if others drink or not.

It can also go the other way where it comes out you’re vegan, you’ve said nothing about it and people start protesting “oh I don’t eat much meat.” Or it comes out that I’ve stopped drinking and they go “oh I’m trying to cut back myself” or “I only had a small wine at the weekend, I needed it, it had been a hard week.” This is unprompted, I’m never asking people to justify themselves but they seem to feel the need.