To ask why people are so critical/judgemental of vegans?

[abacucat]

Just wondering why?

@ksa103 I think you’re 100% right.

@RrreCansada exactly! I don’t care if I get abuse for being vegan, it’s not about me, it’s the animals I think about.

That’s true hangry! I was gutted when I was vegan to discover that my favourite wine wasn’t vegan friendly.

kikisparks, sorry, but that is absolutely not true. We cannot live perfectly healthily without any animal products at all. That is false. It is dangerous and will always catch up with you, particularly with Osteoporosis.

Secondly, the environmental argument has been rebutted several times, here is but one example of that from an ex-vegan:
amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/sep/06/meat-production-veganism-deforestation

Another ex-vegan/recovering vegan testimony and research:
letthemeatmeat.com/post/1141998663/how-the-ethical-argument-for-veganism-fails-and/amp

Lastly, another on the health risks and dangers of vegan diets:

empoweredsustenance.com/is-vegan-healthy/

Bluelady
I think I gave you an answer on that thread. A vegan's food choices are made based on ethics. A meat eater's are based on preference. I'd have thought that was pretty simple to understand. Clearly I was wrong.

What utter pish. I don't care if vegans judge me and we all have ethics. I'm on a limited income and have reduced my meat eating to enable me to only buy free range/organic meat. I judge those who can afford to but don't.

@dialsmavis exactly! People don’t realise this (not many know that vit D is added to dairy milk and iron is added to bread either)

@SalemBlackCat Donald watson was a vegan for about 60 years before dying in his 90s, it didn’t catch up with him.

Why would I get osteoporosis? Do lots of people in China, who historically haven’t eaten much or any dairy, have that then?

I'll reiterate the question to which we're still awaiting a reasoned and logical reply. What ethics lie behind the choice to eat meat?

I am not vegan but have enormous admiration for them. It is really really hard to be a vegan, and by being early adopters of a vegan diet in a mainly meat eating society they are creating a market for more and more plant based options, as seen by the vastly increased range in all major supermarkets. Whatever your ethical stance, it is generally accepted that eating less meat is beneficial for health and for the environment, current levels of factory farmed meat are not sustainable and small scale grass fed animal farms are not scaleable by any measure to produce current meat requirements. I think those who are so hostile to people who choose not to eat meat should take a long hard look at their reasons for feeling so threatened.

Not all vegans have ethics too tbh. Just look at PETA...

Because a great deal of them rub it in your face, even when they claim they don't. I guess they're a vocal minority and it's those who make vegans in general seem irritating to me.

I know many who ate animal products themselves until recently, but now because they have decided to stop feel they have the right to judge everyone who continues to. By that logic I invite someone who became vegan before them to judge and criticise them.

It's like someone who has just stopped smoking now criticising a smoker.

@Bluelady I have already answered that for you. What 'ethics' lie behind veganism? Except for a misinformed belief fuelled by doctored 'videos' (probably same guys who did the Planned Parenthood 'video' also did these 'cowspiracy and other animal slaughter 'videos') and falling for a fad?

Please tell me, why you think supporting the evolution of our species, supporting science, and supporting a healthful diet isn't ethics? I doubt a rational answer will be forthcoming, because you have none. After all this time, that has become more than abundantly clear.

kikisparks, I know someone who lived to 98. Her answer as to how she lived to that age when asked at 97, was drinking a lot, all food in moderation, and she was a chain smoker. Are you saying chain smoking should be the next fad?

Also, Chinese have always eaten animal products.

As I said still waiting for a logical and reasoned response.

As I said, thank you for proving you are not capable of given an actual answer. Sticking a finger in each ears and ignoring the evidence in front of you won't get you very far in life. You cannot ignore the facts even if you don't like the poster who gave you them.

@Salemblackcat

The George Monbiot article isn’t a peer reviewed scientific study. It doesn’t mention methane or co2 just land use. Even if the information in the article is right (and without seeing the studies it’s based on it’s impossible to say) if animal agriculture produces about 10% of the world's emissions it’s still awful! Veganism is still better even by this article’s standard! He’s just saying it’s not as much better as he thought.

Peer reviewed studies:

“Today, and probably into the future, dietary change can deliver environmental benefits on a scale not achievable by producers. Moving from current diets to a diet that excludes animal products (table S13) (35) has transformative potential, reducing food’s land use by 3.1 (2.8-3.3) billion hectares (a 76% reduction), including a 19% reduction in arable land; food’s GHG emissions by 6.6 (5.5-7.4) billion metric tons of CO2eq (a 49% reduction); acidification by 50% (45-54%); eutrophication by 49% (37-56%); and scarcity-weighted freshwater withdrawals by 19% (−5 to 32%) for a 2010 reference year.“

josephpoore.com/Science%20360%206392%20987%20-%20Accepted%20Manuscript.pdf

“Meat sector is one of the leading polluters in the food industry. Regardless of the perspective, environmental impacts of the meat chain influence three dimensions — climate change in respect to the global warming potential, acidification potential and eutrophication potential; consumption of natural resources (mainly water and energy) and; polluting the environment with various types of waste and waste water discharge.”

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211601X15001157

www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.HTM

The meat sector is one of the food sectors with global environmental impacts. Regardless of the type of meat produced and technology applied, similar actors in the food chain exist and similar environmental impacts occur. This type of production influences climate change in respect to global warming, acidification and eutrophication potentials and ozone depletion substances and has a high ratio of consumption of water and energy resulting in waste and waste water discharge. Regardless of differences in meat technology, eating habits and cultural diversity, environmentally sound production is one of the greatest meat chain challenges in 21st century.“

iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1755-1315/85/1/012015/pdf

@SalemBlackCat you said “it will always catch up with you”. I was giving just one example of where it didn’t.

Can you please give me a source for your claim that a vegan diet causes osteoporosis?

What in meat prevents osteoporosis?

When I was vegan and vegetarian many meat eaters DID comment unnecessarily on my choices. It was irritating ad. Likewise I was a dick about eating meat.
Why don't we all live and let live. Eat meat or not. Use animal products or not.
Most carnivores in the wild don't have these issues ...they are hunters and eating meat is survival. As humans we are all screwed up about our diets. We have totally overbought things. On one hand we have obese junk food eaters, on the other we have said like orthorexis quivering into their tofu burgers if they smell bacon.
How lovely if we could just eat a donut without fretting about it. I often lass as I worry about my weight.
One reason why I cannot be vegan is that do and I were going to serve veggie quorn meatballs but our vegan friend couldn't even eat them as they had traces of milk. Life is too short imo.

Af sorry!

We are all vegan...we have never experienced any negative attitudes...if people cater for us we are greatful.if not we take our own food..not many people know we are vegan...perhaps that's why we haven't experienced any negative attitudes...I don't know really ,arnt most people just getting on with their lives..I don't pay much attention to what others eat ,and as far as I know people don't pay much attention to what I eat..I can't change the world,I can only change what I do,so I am vegan for the animals,but I don't shout it from the roof tops,

I often pass sorry

@SalemBlackCat also that George Monbiot article was 2010. My studies are after that.

What George Monbiot thinks or doesn’t think about veganism is largely irrelevant but it may interest you to know that since 2010 he has written these articles:

2016-
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/09/vegan-corrupt-food-system-meat-dairy

2018- www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/08/save-planet-meat-dairy-livestock-food-free-range-steak

you can type that vegans have 'ethics' and meat eaters don't all you want, it is not true and it never will be,

Of course meat eaters have ethics, they just don't have the same ethics as vegans. To say they don't is pretty bloody insulting, actually.

Is it ethical to want everyone to adopt food choices that would utlimately result in the loss of rare species that only thrive on grazed land if everyone stopped eating meat?