To ask why people are so critical/judgemental of vegans?

[abacucat]

Just wondering why?

Yes, SilverySurfer, me too. The only answer they gave was that meat eaters can eat vegetables as well as meat, and vegans vegetables only. Erm, no. Sorry, that is not an adequate answer. Not by a long shot. I know it is easier for meat-eaters than vegans simply based on the restrictions vegans have (imposed on themselves). I think that is obvious. HOWEVER, it doesn't cut it. Because, when you look at it, vegans CAN eat meat. Unless they have life-threatening allergies, vegans CAN eat meat. It is CHOICE. They CHOOSE not to. That is their choice. A meat eater chooses to eat meat. That is also their choice. For me it isn't the practical (oh, meat eaters can eat both, vegans cannot) issues, it is the philosophical argument. Vegans choose to be difficult and different. A non-vegan doesn't. Vegans may have ethical/philosophical reasons for abstaining, however non-vegans have health ethical/philosophical reasons. My question is why should the philosophical arguments of a vegan take precedence over a non-vegan? They are the ones who choose to be different and thus choose to complicate these things. Non-vegans don't. Imo it is the onus of the one choosing to be different and difficult to make the sacrifices. Not those who don't choose to be different and difficult. This is the thing. It is not whether vegans have less choice by default than non-vegans, it is which philosophical position should take precedence.

However, having read the OP of that threads posts more thoroughly, it seems her parents were vegans thus she was brainwashed, and didn't have a choice. She never knew anything else. Then gets with a more militant vegan, and well, yeah, she never stood a chance imo. It's like being born into a cult or a very fundamentalist Christian home. Of course, in the real world outside of your family/friends who have the same very narrow mindset and life experience, you are going to run into difficulties. And people saying others might convert if they have a nice vegan meal? I was wondering, has the poor woman in question ever even had the chance to eat a meat or non-vegan meal? Perhaps she may have been converted, if she had the chance to try something out of the rigid restraints of her lived experience. How about that? Maybe she could be converted? Especially with all the healthful and tasty non-vegan meals.

More dramatic bollocks, Salem.

@Bluelady WRONG! A non-vegan's diet is made on ethics and health. A vegans is usually based on fads. So, please. Just once and for all. Just please stop saying that vegans have 'ethics' and meat-eaters are 'preference'. BOTH are preferences. Vegans make their choice on a preference. There is no evidence their position is more 'ethical' than a non-vegan. Just stop with that patronising rubbish. It simply is not true.

You can type that until your fingers fall off. I can think what I like and all the ranting in the world won't change it.

Lol Bluelady, seriously. Dramatics? Non-vegans are not the ones refusing to eat any animal products, they are not the ones choosing to be different and difficult, they are no the ones who complicate meal times, they are not the ones preaching and screaming "I am vegan!", they are not the ones throwing flour on people wearing fur coats (though I detest fur coats), they are not the ones calling people murderers, staging protests etc.

Dramatics? PMSL You cannot serious!

And Bluelady, you can type that vegans have 'ethics' and meat eaters don't all you want, it is not true and it never will be, no matter how many times you are repeating it. You are wasting your time.

Salem I mean this in the nicest possible way but you really need to get some help.

Lol really? Because I provide a rational argument and rebut the flimsy arguments of others? You may want to read the posts by a few people on here and re-think that position. We are all contributing to a discussion. Well, some of us are. Others are goady and provide nothing to the discussion.

noodge

I used to be vegan and made a vegan dish for my (irritating as fuck) FIL’s (Godawful) pot luck birthday party. He fancies himself as a foodie and lover of spicy food, so I made a (delicious) spiced brown rice salad; I know it sounds worthy as anything, but it was honestly lush, I swear! He pulled a face and said “uh... NO... I won’t be eating THAT haw haw”. Weird.

He also laughed himself silly when he heard I was vegan but drank alcohol ; “Well that’s not very vegan is it? Haw haw haw”. Idiot.

Bliddy el Belinda he does sound like a complete idiot!
A friend was visiting and I told him he could help himself to food if he was hungry
'I can't eat your stuff I'm not vegan'

Ok yes, it's all vegan food in my house. But why he wouldn't be able to eat chips, toast, soup I had in the fridge , etc etc I've no idea, even if he preferred to actively avoid veggie sausages and the like ..

SalemBlackCat Vegans may have ethical/philosophical reasons for abstaining, however non-vegans have health ethical/philosophical reasons.

Serious question - what are the ethical and philosophical reasons in favour of eating meat? What ethical and philosophical reasons are strong enough for a meat eater to, say, refuse to go to a vegan’s wedding because no animal products would be served?

I mean, I understand the health position, I think it must be a lot harder to have a healthy balanced vegan diet than a healthy balanced diet that includes meat, or than a healthy balanced vegetarian diet that includes dairy and eggs - but the “ethical and philosophical reasons” in the above statement has me puzzled.

In a weird way I guess Noodge your FIL doesn't want to support a lifestyle choice that he finds unethical, unhealthful and wrong. Maybe he thinks by eating your food he will be encouraging your lifestyle choice, so maybe it is a moral/ethical thing for him? For many non-vegans they don't want to be seen supporting or encouraging something they see as a 'fad', or dangerous or wrong. I personally would have no problem with chips or soup or toast. But I wouldn't want to eat something that needed a vegan substitute, such as vegan cakes, because I feel - rightly or wrongly - that I would be encouraging you in that lifestyle choice, and I wouldn't want to encourage you. Maybe that is not the reason for your FIL, but having spoken to many non-vegans who are vehemently opposed to veganism, they see any eating/engagement as active support.

HopeGarden, well apart from the health one, there is evolution. That we are supposed to eat meat. That we as a species would not even exist if we hadn't still on the whole eaten meat, as Worridmum has more than adequately adequately outlined. There is also an argument that vegans are abusive and aggressive, attack people and their values are not values most people would support ie the militancy. I find that very unethical and it goes against all my values because if I were to become vegan then what would that say about me, that I align myself with that type.

Salem

Do you mean me, or Noodge? I was the one with the FIL. Noodge was the one with the cake, but not a FIL (I think).

Yes, I did mean you BelindaTheBadger, my apologies, I read the names to close together.

So now you know, Noodge, you're violent and aggressive. That would be all those hormone fed vegetables you eat! 😉

Or all the vitamins in pill form....

Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying salem. Well, it was a salad, not a cake.

I personally would have no problem with chips or soup or toast. But I wouldn't want to eat something that needed a vegan substitute, such as vegan cakes

So, I think my salad would probably fall under the chips or soup category^^. Not what you would call a ‘substitute’ food like vegan cheese or anything.

You are probably right though, that by refusing to eat my food FIL was making a point about not agreeing with my choice to be vegan. I wish he’d said that he wouldn’t eat my food BEFORE he’d asked for everyone attending his (dull) party to bring a dish. Seems a bit of a dick move to invite me to cook for him and then completely refuse my food on ethical grounds 🤷‍♀️.

I agree BelindaTheBadger if he knows you are vegan he should have told you not to beforehand. That was wrong of him.

Because the are some (not all) who bang on about how amazing they are and how meat eaters are vile animal rapists while they:
A. Drive gas guzzlers with leather trim and/or don’t give a damn about how their plastic consumption damages the environment.
B. Are only doing it as there as a diet fad
C. Would not do it if there was no fancy vegan food as their ‘principles’ don’t extend that far.
Judging by my Facebook feed these seem a majority.
Vegetarians don’t seem to harp on about it as much.

Yes, T’was wrong of him salem. He’s has the tendency to be a fucking eejit fairly frequently though, so what did I expect?

But that’s a tale for another thread... because there just aren’t enough in law threads on mumsnet !

@mooncuplanding the definition is “avoid animal exploitation as far as possible and practicable”. It’s about avoiding unnecessary violence, and as we can live perfectly healthily without animal products then the 56 billion a year killed for food is unnecessary. I wouldn’t kill a rat or a fly a wasp either but in a situation where it was necessary I might.

There are many, many studies proving that veganism is the best lifestyle for the environment, not just one study. I can direct you to some if you’re interested (peer reviewed non biased empiric data).

The best way to get nutrients is through meat? How so? We can live equally healthily without it.

I wonder if people consider me preachy or sanctimonious just for answering your question and responding to your post?

Whoever mentioned the alcohol (in that case the person saying it was bit of a dumdum).
You wouldn't believe how many "vegans" don't know that so many brands of wine and beer are not suitable.
I scared one with it once. Unintentionally. We were talking and she said she looks forward to having some wine later. I asked which brand she drinks in case I ever need vegan friendly wine for someone.
She was horrified to realise not all wines are ok for her.

@highheelsandbobblehats look for Duncan’s of deeside shortbread in the purple packet, it’s amazing! Non vegans love it too.

Meat eaters can have food ethics too.
Pick a meat/eggs/dairy from reliable and safe source where you know animals are treated well.