Things you should never say in front of childless women

[Clothrabbit]

Just following on from another thread I started, what things have childless women on here had said to or in front of them, or read celebs spouting in public, that really hurt or upset them.

For me:

You don't know what real responsibility is until you have a child.
Having a child makes you less selfish.

Leo finding Labour the worst pain she’s ever had doesn’t lessen your experience of pain thoUgh shine. It doesn’t mean hers was worse than what you’ve endured.

Pain isn’t something to be compared - it’s all relative.

If the sentence was “you’ve not felt pain till you’ve given birth” then fair enough. But all she’s saying is it’s the worst pain she’s ever felt.

Leo said it in the context of this thread, and in the context of women having children making them special or different. Her post exhibits the kind of thinking that this thread is challenging.

I'm guilty of saying to a friend some years ago when she got married 'oo kids next then'.

I think about it now I'm struggling myself. What a stupid thing to say! I'd be so upset if someone made that comment to me after all I'm going through now. It wasn't intentional and I would have been so pissed at myself if I'd upset her.

She did go on to have a child shortly after thankfully but I wouldn't have known if she'd been having problems. It's thoughtless.

And I guess that's why threads or conversations like this are so important because it isn't necessarily something you think about if you've not experienced the other side of it. It's a reminder to people who may not have thought about this before to think a bit more about other people. Surely that can only be a good thing?

As for not knowing tiredness til you have DC, again, it's nonsense. Not knowing love til you have DC, nonsense. Not knowing selflessness til you have DC, nonsense. DC don't suddenly turn you into a super-tired Mother Theresa. They just turn you into someone who feels it's ok to comment on another woman's choices entirely unconnected with your own

Nailed it, Idontbelieve

I hope that infertility, like many very difficult life experiences, has made me a better person, insofar as I have become so so much more aware of how thoughtless some comments can be, how hurtful words can be, and I think that the silver lining I take from a very dark cloud is that, in addition to the incredible women I've had the privilege to come to know throughout my journey, members of the club no one wants to join - I hope that it's made me a more empathic person. That I've learned to think before I speak. That I've understood much more important to try and put myself in someone else's shoes. That above all, the importance of being kind

Maybe having children has made some people a better person. I have no yardstick to measure that by

But regardless of one's life experiences, above all, just be kind

You never know what someone else might be going through

Great post bananafish.

Fistbump to shineon.

leo (and others) -you don't know if someone has or has not chosen to remain childless. They may not want to tell you the truth. And that's always supposing that there even is "a truth".

Often it's not that simple.

I am in a grey area between the two. I didn't want children, then I did, then I couldn't through circumstance, then when I was in a position to have them, I became very suddenly infertile.

In a way, it made it easier, because the door was closed for me. I had no more choices to make, and there was no "what-if" to haunt me.

I could do without the cloying pity of those people who imagine that I am battling bravely against some inner sadness, though. I'm really not. My life without children makes me very happy. I wouldn't dream of telling other women in my situation what they ought to feel though.

I have a baby at age 20 (unplanned but loving it) and find it difficult to tow the line here. None of my friends have kids and probably won't till they're 30s or later as we're all at uni and very career focused. On the one hand I understand that kids aren't for everyone and I say that there are plenty of joys in life (I always make the joke about dogs basically being low maintenance babies in that they both like squeaky bright coloured toys, if you leave them unsupervised they'll destroy your house and they will eat ANYTHING within a 5 meter radius if they can get their hands/paws on it). On the other hand I feel the need to defend myself for having a baby so young and say how much energy I have compared to the other older mum's from baby classes struggling with the midnight feeds and still recovering from labour (I was walking with her to get groceries on day 6 after getting out of the hospital on day 5 (low birth weight and jaundice meant she had to stay in 5 days) and then sat uni exams 3 weeks after giving birth). I always wonder if they're judging me for having a kid so young or if they just feel their 'biological clock' is ticking and that's why they're being awkward. I never really know what to say.

I always wonder if they're judging me for having a kid so young

Kind of like you're judging them for not having a kid so young?

Did the TAAT get zapped?

merlot just don't join in.

You don't have to defend yourself by criticising someone else

how much energy I have compared to the other older mum's from baby classes struggling with the midnight feeds and still recovering from labour
But that might not be age. Not every 20 Yr old is off running around 3 weeks after having a baby and not every 35 Yr old isn't.

You chose to have a baby at 20, just show people how happy you are for you and leave it at that.

I also agree with the "you don't know what tired is until you have kids' being a load of shit. I feel less tired now with a 6 month old because in the 3 years before and 7 months of my pregnancy I was working night shift AND doing uni. Now I have my partner to help with the new 'nightshift'. I have more support from family in terms of keeping on top of housework and financially etc. I get to use the parking spaces closer to the grocery store and spend WAY too much time relaxing at coffee shops with baby because I don't have to hold down a third or fourth part time job on weekends because I have my partner to support me.

The people who say we cannot imagine the tiredness they feel from having children credit us with very little imagination. I absolutely haven't experienced the tiredness a new parent has but I've heard them talk about it enough to be able get a pretty good idea of just how more tired than everyone else they are.

Another thing that winds me up is people (who haven't had any fertility issues) with children referring to their pre child life as when they were childless. No, you've never had the certain knowledge that will never have children EVER, it's quite different.
( although by my own logic I'm sure they're capable of imagining the idea of never being able to have children )

The people who say we cannot imagine the tiredness they feel from having children credit us with very little imagination. I absolutely haven't experienced the tiredness a new parent has but I've heard them talk about it enough to be able get a pretty good idea of just how more tired than everyone else they are.

Thank you! There was a similar discussion last week, with some posters telling us we childfree have no clue at all about just how busy busy busy they are. Eh... we do. We spend time with friends and relatives who have kids, and see how they never get a moment for themselves. For me, that's one of the reasons I chose not to have kids, and I feel vindicated every time I vist friends who are parents.

Another thing that winds me up is people (who haven't had any fertility issues) with children referring to their pre child life as when they were childless. No, you've never had the certain knowledge that will never have children EVER, it's quite different.

Again, so very true. The logic seems to be "Parents were childfree once so we know what life on the other side is. However, the childfree have never experienced parenthood and so have no clue." Firstly, you can only experience your own experiences. You know what being childfree was like and you know what being a parent is like for YOU, not for anyone else. Secondly, as you say, making a conscious decision never to have children isn't at all the same thing as assuming you're probably going to have kids some day.

I'm in my 40s now, and when I look back at those of my friends who are now parents, it's obvious that our outlook on life and priorities were always different, even when we were all 'childfree'. It just isn't the same thing at all.

@sleepingstandingup you make a really good point, I really need to learn not to rise to the bait. I had a lot of comments about 'ruining my life' or 'leaving the party at 9pm' upset me. But you're right, I'm happy with my decision and I shouldn't try justify my decision by tearing down other women for their ages. Food for thought, thank you

@TroysMammy

I'm childless by choice and now aged 50. No one has never spouted this shit to me in the last 30 years. Perhaps childless by choice pp's need to keep away from smug parents.

Then you have been incredibly fortunate. Or you have never left your house since you reached adulthood!

I never had a child til my mid 30's, (only had the one,) and from about the age of 17-18, to when I had my daughter at 35, I barely had a week go by, without someone commenting on the fact that I had no kids. Neighbours, work colleagues, friends, extended family, acquaintances, people I barely knew (like shop assistants, and hairdressers and so on.)

'When are you having kids?' was asked within HOURS of me and DH getting married, and it never fucking stopped. 10 years after getting married we had our daughter, then all we got was 'when you having the next one then?' and 'you have to give her a brother or sister, or she will be lonely,' and 'she will be spoilt without a sibling.'

She is not, and never HAS been 'lonely' or 'spoilt,' and she has more friends right now (in her mid 20's,) than I have had in my entire lifetime. And she is a successful, funny, sweet, loving, intelligent young woman with a great well-paid career, a lovely house, and a wonderful boyfriend.

Conversely, after many years of being child free (and being attacked left right and centre for it;) when I first had my daughter, I had child-free people making all kinds of nasty, demeaning, rude, obnoxious comments about 'mummies' and how moany they are, how if they are tired it's their own fault as THEY chose to have the brat, and how mummies should not expect special privileges in the workplace, and how they just HATE children.

So in my experience, child free people AND people with kids can be equally obnoxious and cuntish. Many child free folk, and parents are fine, and are lovely, but on BOTH sides, there are opinionated arseholes.

So yeah, I got the 'you don't know love til you have a child' and 'you will never known stress and tiredness til you have kids' old chestnuts.... (from people with kids,) as well as rude and obnoxious comments from child free people (after I had had kids.)

Upshot is, some people - on both sides, need to THINK before they speak!

@TroysMammy

I'm childless by choice and now aged 50. No one has never spouted this shit to me in the last 30 years. Perhaps childless by choice pp's need to keep away from smug parents.

Also wanted to say to this, that it is impossible to simply 'stay away' from 'smug parents.' Not unless (like I said before,) you never leave the house! Many work colleagues, and neighbours, and family members have kids. How on earth can people simply avoid 'spending time with people who have kids?'

how mummies should not expect special privileges in the workplace

Did that come out of nowhere? I’ve had issues with trying to take time off during school holidays and Christmas because people with children thought they should have first choice. Also working weekends, late shifts etc.

Another thing that winds me up is people (who haven't had any fertility issues) with children referring to their pre child life as when they were childless. No, you've never had the certain knowledge that will never have children EVER, it's quite different.

Yes! This

If their pre child life was one of years of being childless not by choice - of deeply wanting a child, of being in a position whereby you're facing the possibility of a future without becoming a mother as you'd hoped you would be - then yes, there may be some similarities

If their life before children was one of being childfree, of not having children because they had chosen not to, or being in a position whereby they had not had children yet, but had no reason to think they might not be able to have a child in the future, then no. They do not know what it's like to be involuntarily childless

I don't think people sharing their own experiences, feelings and reflections about their lives has to be offensive.

It shouldn't be taboo for a parent to talk about how becoming a parent has changed them, or the impact it's had on their life.

It is of course silly if they think it would impact everyone the same way.

Absolutely nailak and I think most people on this thread have agreed with that.

There is a huge difference between saying 'I felt this...' to 'you haven't felt this...'

It shouldn't be taboo for a parent to talk about how becoming a parent has changed them, or the impact it's had on their life.

How is this 'taboo'? I hear parents talking about it all the time.

Before I had my DD,my partners BF had the nerve to say to me you're not a women unless you have children..I am not a violent person..but I really wanted to smack him

@MyBambi I would have!

Me having children has literally no impact on my biology as a woman, moron.

It shouldn't be taboo for a parent to talk about how becoming a parent has changed them, or the impact it's had on their life.

It is of course silly if they think it would impact everyone the same way.

100% this

"I didn't know tiredness until I had a child" - totally fine

"You don't know tiredness until you have a child", when said to a childless person, who may never have a child - not kind

'I didn't know true love until I had a child' - totally fine

'You don't know true love until you have a child' - not kind