Things you should never say in front of childless women

[Clothrabbit]

Just following on from another thread I started, what things have childless women on here had said to or in front of them, or read celebs spouting in public, that really hurt or upset them.

For me:

You don't know what real responsibility is until you have a child.
Having a child makes you less selfish.

I wouldn't say it to someone but I don't believe you know real love until you have your own kids.

Wow. Believe me, I know real love. You'll just have to take my word for it. But ..... I have absolutely no reason to lie to you

Ok let me put it another way, I personally couldn't love anyone that I haven't given birth to. Not as much as I love my kids.

Can you not see how that is different from what you said before? Hard as you find it to believe, not everyone feels in the same way. You don’t have to see many child abuse cases to see some mothers clearly feel no love for the baby that their body “grew”.

RoseGoldEagle I hate that shit. Like, of course nobody in the history of ever has ever felt tired before they have children. Children are the only reason that anyone is ever allowed to not get enough sleep or feel tired

I used to have a boss (male, not that I think it matters) who would make those comments all the time. He didn’t know that I was actually in an abusive relationship where i’d frequently be kept up all night being screamed at by my partner. If I ever mentioned being tired today he’d scoff and do the whole ‘oho just wait till you have children!’ routine.

Occasionally when I get really sick of those comments I’ll reply with ‘oh gosh yes, I’m so sorry, having children is really awful isn’t it? you must be so miserable’ and then enjoy them backtracking and telling me how their kids are their whole world etc.

Someone put it very well earlier on when they said something about people judging/expressing opinions based on their own experiences. I think we all fall into that trap sometimes. And I'd like to say to the posters that do want kids and are having a hard time, the world is full of thoughtless shits and it's rotten that when you feel so emotional about a subject, that people can be so thoughtless and often callous. I empathise and it's a heartbreaking time. Just know that not everyone is oblivious

'Clothrabbit an odd thing to be upset about.'

Not at all. Theres nothing like not being a parent to make you realise how family centric society is. That can make you feel extremely isolated if you're not a parent

'I wouldn't say it to someone but I don't believe you know real love until you have your own kids. '

Jeez. How cold and barren your life must have been before you had your kids. So all the other love you had in your life was, what, fake love? I feel sad for you

Sleep deprivation causes tiredness. End of. I've been sleep deprived for years and I'm fucking tired a lot of the time. It doesn't matter that mine was due to insomnia. It was tiredness.

It is good to see threads in here where us childless women are able to express how we feel. Yet I despair that it won't really make a difference to some people.

I do support women. However, often supporting women is a shorthand for don't disagree with someone because they too have a uterus. Actually I don't have a uterus anymore.

Lottapianos Did you not see the rest of my post? I said that the word family is applied to any family member, not just children. So the OP could have taken her mother to the 'family day'.

Of course you can feel real love. The love I feel for my husband is very real indeed. I love him desperately. I hope to see out my days with him. I love him more now that I did when we met almost 30yrs ago. But it’s in no way comparable to the love I feel for my children. I would die for them in a heartbeat and choose their life over DH’s life without a moment’s hesitation. Likewise DH would choose their life over mine. It doesn’t mean our love for each other is any less real. It’s very real and very strong.
However, it isn’t primal in the same way. That all consuming intensity isn’t there. As a mother, there’s a tiny voice in the back of my head that is always screaming, ‘Where are they?’ ‘Are they safe?’ And I mean always. All day every day. It doesn’t take over your life (well it does for some women but that’s unhealthy and they need support) because you rationalise it and learn to control it but it is there from the moment they’re born to the moment you die.

If you lose your spouse that sadness will always be there but it is possible to move on and eventually be happy again whilst always acknowledging that love and loss. It’s not like this for bereaved parents.

So I have every sympathy for the shit some child free women have to listen to and I agree people talk out of their arse sometimes but the loss of a child is on another level completely. And I say that as someone who’s lost both parents and a sibling all of which devastated me. But dear God the worst possible thing imaginable to me would be to join that club.

@Sassenach85 thank you, you're right. That's what it all boils down to, thoughtfulness. Realising that other people may be experiencing troubles which you are not and so being thoughtful in how you are speaking to them.

I hope that some previous posters can take that away from this thread and be kinder in future.

I’m a teacher and never wanted children (always joked being a teacher was the best contraceptive going!) then had an “oops moment” and at 40 I had my DD. When people found out I was pregnant I was greeted with comments like, “that’s so funny, you’re pregnant!” and “I knew you’d have kids in the end.” Well I don’t think having a child is funny and I never thought I would have kids. I learnt to grin and bear it but all I wanted to do was tell people to FOAD!

I kind of accepted people are idiots and speak without thinking. I think that a person’s position with regard to having or not having children is always commented on. It’s crap but there are so many idiots in the word.

I love my DD to her very core but my life was easier and very fulfilled and happy before I had her. I alway felt I had to make people aware that I didn’t want children and turn it into a bit of a joke though when I met someone for the first time. I’m not sure why I did this - maybe because there’s a sense of judgement?

That all consuming intensity isn’t there. As a mother, there’s a tiny voice in the back of my head that is always screaming, ‘Where are they?’ ‘Are they safe?’ And I mean always. All day every day.

That is one of the things I am so so grateful that I avoided. I have anxiety anyway, I reckon that would have spiraled it badly.
I don't want to love anything like that. I don't want to understand it.

But why are we now talking about this? I’ve already posted to say it’s ridiculous to suggest any of the following,
a) that you cannot be a good midwife or teacher if you are child free.
b) that you cannot possibly understand tiredness.
c) that you are selfish if you choose to remain child free.
d) that you are missing out on something special if you remain child free
e) that you can never be fulfilled unless you’ve had children
And now,
f) that you cannot know real love until you become a parent.

All the above is rubbish. The only 2 things which are indescribably different are the constant undercurrent of worry and anxiety and the primal nature of the love. But, blimey, who’d want to feel like that anyway? They’re hardly a perk. In fact they’re a pretty shit side effect.

@Helpmefindaholiday I can total appreciate that love for children may be the strongest love of all even though I'm yet to experience it. I don't know first hand but I agree. And your post is the right way to put that across.

Being told I don't know what real love is and I'm just in denial though is horrible and cruel. Especially on a thread such as this.

Also saying, 'it must be nice to be able to focus on yourself blah blah' is just patronising considering what a lot of us on here are actually going through.

@maxthemartian, well quite! See my post above

However, it isn’t primal in the same way. That all consuming intensity isn’t there

I understand that you have only felt that particularly intense love for your children; but I don't think you can say others haven't felt it for people who are not their children. None of us can ever know what another person truly feels and experiences.

what things have childless women on here had said to or in front of them, or read celebs spouting in public, that really hurt or upset them

I had someone congratulate a new father in front of me (we were all chatting in a group) by saying "Welcome to the world." To the parent, not the child.

Also been told that single childless women like me living in whole houses are the cause of a) the housing shortage or b) global warming.

Along with the standard "I didn't know what love is until I had children" garbage.

Just caught up with the full thread so sorry to go backwards but User we may not have agreed on some things here but I'm sorry you're struggling with depression. It's awful, I've been there. Be kind to yourself x

@ScreamingValenta, to be fair I think the fact that virtually all parents describe it that way makes it a pretty big sample from which to draw conclusions. The fact that they virtually all describe it the same way and ‘like no other love.’ Also the fact that it’s common for bereaved spouses to be able to move on and love again. Bereaved parents are never, ever able to move on. It’s just different.

But this isn’t oneupmanship. I’ve felt intense love before for boyfriends and then for DH when we first met. It’s just different; on a different level that I never knew existed before. I’m not saying it’s a better level. In many ways it’s the opposite but it’s indescribable almost. And despite loving and losing loved ones, nothing terrifies me the way the loss of a child does.

Sassanach 85 and Helpmefindaholiday [Flowers]

I wouldn't say it in real life to someone's face who hadn't asked my opinion.

This IS real life, the posters on here talking about their heartbreak are real people and when you type something so staggeringly insensitive you are effectively just saying to their faces. None of them asked your opinion, yet you crashed on in here amongst the hurt and pain that people are describing and asking others to be mindful of to try and avoid making it worse and shared anyway. Can you really not see that this is exactly the kind of thing that makes life a little bit worse for some people?

@Helpmefindaholiday It wasn't really spousal love I had in mind, but love for other family members. You can't move on from the loss of a parent or sibling to 'love again'.

I'm 56 and never had kids.

I can honestly say, no one has ever said anything offensive or tactless to me about it - and I'm quite thin-skinned .

But a couple of childless journalists make it their life's work to be offended.
I think mothers have far more prejudices and judgments made about them - whether to SAH or work or breastfeed etc.

People need to stop feeling offended so easily sometimes.

As I said upthread, I’ve lost both parents and a sibling. My mother was killed by a drunk driver. I’ve known loss. This isn’t Top Trumps.

Love the comment that the only point of someone's life is to have children. That would surely mean the only point of the children's lived was then to have children. So all lives are then actually pointless