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AIBU?

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Original poster

Macron's behaviour is despicable

999 replies

Snowymountainsalways · 21/09/2018 09:50

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

OP posts:
BadderWolf · 21/09/2018 14:58

Productive output does not directly correlated with time elapsed. As evidenced perfectly by our government.

maxthemartian · 21/09/2018 14:58

We can't stay under EEA as it would still mean free movement, and that was one of the reasons lots of people voted leave.

So an unspecified minority of the people who voted for Brexit, which is only a percentage of the people who voted overall, which is only a percentage of the UK public, might possibly object to freedom of movement. But you think that we should be held over a barrel by this small minority?

Why?

Havanananana · 21/09/2018 14:58

So does a no deal scenario activate on the 29th of March next year?

That's the latest date that it can be activated (if there is no Withdrawal Agreement and transition period, and no agreement on an extension). The UK is actually free to walk away at any point after invoking Art 50 - but it would be pretty stupid to do so unless all the emergency measures were in place.

Original poster
Snowymountainsalways · 21/09/2018 14:58

A stay of execution looks unlikely, what would be the point? A stay for what if there is no even the basis for any kind of arrangement.

OP posts:
jasjas1973 · 21/09/2018 14:59

TM has merely stated her wish that citizens rights will be guaranteed, no laws nor what these right are have been passed.

We ve just had a conference call on who is willing to step in and do the on going call-out week for a Czech technician who is leaving to work in Sweden next month, she just had enough of the uncertainty.

maxthemartian · 21/09/2018 14:59

@Snowymountainsalways did you see my above question? I'd be curious to hear your answer.

Bombardier25966 · 21/09/2018 15:00

@Hesta54, it's not at all unusual for people to work compressed hours and finish early on a Friday. Many factories still do so (including in the UK).

Motheroffourdragons · 21/09/2018 15:01

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Original poster
Snowymountainsalways · 21/09/2018 15:01

Annandale It is too late for the EEA option, no time to sell it to the country.

So am I right in thinking we could just pull out now? As in any time is what you are saying Havanananana?

OP posts:
Annandale · 21/09/2018 15:01

We could have an agreement right now if we said yes to customs checks at tge ports (and probably losing Gibraltar). If EEA was too much, tm could have sold that to us.

Isitsixoclockalready · 21/09/2018 15:02

Oh yeah and if she was so 'respectful' to the EU 'how come she didn't put a lid on Boris when he was running his mouth off?

Bombardier25966 · 21/09/2018 15:03

A stay of execution looks unlikely, what would be the point?

To give the UK time to make a plan for once we do leave. Whilst you were enjoying May's speech, you missed that we have no plan for what happens without a deal. That's a huge task, and not one that is going to come together overnight, or even in six months.

EthelThePiratesDaughter · 21/09/2018 15:03

I think Theresa May does genuinely want to do a deal. The problem is, the only deal that is really possible in terms of respecting the Good Friday Agreement and not completely tanking the economy is a soft Brexit and giving in on free movement. She's not a strong enough leader and she's letting the hard Brexit head bangers dictate the direction of travel.

The Chequers proposal I think represents a genuine attempt by May at a compromise, but sadly it's fundamentally incompatible with EU law and doesn't go far enough to satisfy the hard Brexiters in the Tory party, so it pleases no one and leaves her looking like an idiot.

Mummyoflittledragon · 21/09/2018 15:04

You’re upset about a mealy-mouthed bunch of tossers in suits being called liars. You must get easily upset. Macron said nothing wrong.

Havanananana · 21/09/2018 15:04

@Hesta54

Gone home by 3, But I thought all EU citizens worked really hard and long hours, that makes the U.K. workers look like workaholics

Wrong. They work really hard, but they are more productive and achieve more in 4 days that British workers achieve in 5, so they can go home at 3pm on Fridays. They also typically start work at 8am or even 7am. When I used to work in Scandinavia, the working week finished at 1pm on Fridays, but we worked until 6pm on Thursdays.

Bombardier25966 · 21/09/2018 15:05

(and probably losing Gibraltar)

You are joking? Shall we just chuck in Northern Ireland too?

EthelThePiratesDaughter · 21/09/2018 15:05

It is too late for the EEA option, no time to sell it to the country.

We sell it to the country on the basis that it will not involve us suffering shortages of food or medicine or the collapse of the ecomony.

Annandale · 21/09/2018 15:05

Of course it's too late for EEA! That's what i'm so cross about!

Isitsixoclockalready · 21/09/2018 15:05

OP for someone who voted remain you seem quite keen on the no deal option.

AuldAlliance · 21/09/2018 15:05

Snowymountains whether I like or dislike May is irrelevant.
I thought that was a poor speech, trying to appease hardliners in the Tory party and threaten the EU at one and the same time.

I feel sorry for TM, who is doggedly trying to do what she set out to do in impossible circumstances.
But there will come a point when she will have to admit that they are impossible, that she cannot achieve what she wants because it makes no sense and that mouthing vacuous platitudes about standing ready will make no difference.

And she needs to stop lying about unchecked immigration, because lying does not advance her cause in any way.

Like/dislike is not pertinent. I do find it hard to summon up much respect for her after this.

Original poster
Snowymountainsalways · 21/09/2018 15:06

maxthemartian I don't consider the leave vote to be irrelevant like you, despite my belief it was the wrong. We have to respect the vote, why? Because the whole fabric and consensus of society could break down. I would not want to see a big rise in the far right and all that comes with that.
No, the best option is to respect the result in my view, and come to a compromise with a good deal that works for all of us. I was hopeful that the leave vote would not mean the end of our relations with the EU. I am worried that this has already happened. I think relations broke down completely yesterday actually.

OP posts:
Hesta54 · 21/09/2018 15:07

akerman But it is uncontrollable at the border, under FOM you can not stop someone coming here looking for work or visiting , so how can you show you have a job to go to, and what funds do you need for a 3 month visit,no EU country I have been to has check to see why I am coming to the country

Quietrebel · 21/09/2018 15:07

I'd be really curious to know where British voters now stand between no deal and remain. It's a binary, unambiguous question. Does anyone else here feel it's time to ask that question?

CaptSkippy · 21/09/2018 15:07

The UK government is looking more and more like a child with a temper tantrum shouting:

"I WANT MY PONY! I WANT MY PONY!"

I tried that too when I was 8. Well, what happened is that ofcourse I was never going to get a pony, because my parents simply couldn't afford it. Eventually most people grow up and realize that you can't have everything you want in life. You can sometimes ask politely and many people will try to accomodate you within reason, but stomping your feet and demanding things is most certainly not the way to get anyone to cooperate.

If the UK government wants good faith, they have to show some of their own, but May keeps implying that this is a one way street. Good luck to her, but this is certainly heading in the wrong direction. And as for EU wanting the UK to crash and burn, isn't that more like projecting your own hopes and dreams onto others?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/09/2018 15:07

I am pleased she has at least guaranteed the rights of EU citizens here

It's true that the details are still to be worked out, but despite the scaremongering - like the clot who told me recently that folk would be "dragged from their beds" - I've never believed this was seriously in doubt

This isn't North Korea

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