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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think our children will not forgive us if we don't sort Brexit out

999 replies

HurricaneFloss · 20/09/2018 13:25

DFiL voted Leave. He's not thick and he had his reasons but, to be frank, he's 80 and not going to have to live with the consequences long term. Especially, if the NHS don't manage to stockpile his multiple medications in the event of a No Deal.

AIBU to think we all need to kick up an almighty stink to ensure that our Government makes a deal that will protect our children's futures - even if that means remaining. Jacob Rees Mogg and his ERG buddies predict it could be 50 years for the UK to see the benefits of leaving the EU. That's too late for my DD.

Austerity has damaged enough lives, we can't let Brexit do more harm. It's no good shrugging and saying "Leave won". If this isn't sorted out there will be no winners.

OP posts:
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10degreestostarboard · 20/09/2018 17:09

Ciderbrains

Are you new around here? Brexit is an evil you see. Worse than pol pot, that Adolf chap and, even, (whisper it) Margaret thatcher.

That isn’t how it works - oh no - you see, you are morally vacuous if you voted leave and the vote was just a blip anyway.

No, on these threads you have to constantly justify the wisdom of the leave vote. I mean, don’t let the majority have their way, what do they know? Because they are all idiots who shouldn’t be trusted with a democratic vote.

Evil I tell you.

HateIsNotGood · 20/09/2018 17:10

P3 - what is your basis for stating that the EU are not trying to make it difficult for the UK to Leave with a good deal for everybody? That wouldn't make them very good negotiators would it?

DGRossetti · 20/09/2018 17:10

Because - if you took off your eu loving bias for just 2 minutes - you would understand that they are making it as politically difficult as they can for us. To show an example to the others

We could leave now, if we wanted. Depends on whether we want a deal though. The fact we haven't left suggests we do.

(The EU has no power to "expel" us, not "force" us to stay. One of the benefits of being a sovereign country, you see.)

woman11017 · 20/09/2018 17:11

Fortunately the majority of women want to stay in the EU.
We can simply withold our paid and unpaid labour until 'others' choose to see sense.
TUC supports #PeoplesVote too. Smile

Havanananana · 20/09/2018 17:11

@10degreestostarboard

Enough of the insults and dismissive comments. Are you going to engage in the discussion?

We had a vote - you failed to convince. So how about you get onboard with the rest of the country?

Apart from the blindingly obvious falsehood about 'the rest of the country' being of one mind, here is your opportunity to describe your vision of the UK after 29th March.

You clearly don't think that my description has any merit, so what do you see being different? Will the UK be better off or not? Will there be more jobs/money/prosperity or not? Is there a price worth paying for Brexit - and if so, how big is the price and who will be paying it?

CiderBrains · 20/09/2018 17:12

No not New, just want to hear some good reasons to stay in the EU?

BanananananaDaiquiri · 20/09/2018 17:12

It’s hysterical tripe because you don’t a crystal ball.

You're quite right, I haven't. Which is why I base whether or not it will be a good idea to leave the EU and how good or otherwise the result of leaving will be on the predictions of those whose job it is to work out that sort of stuff. Like the Governor of the Bank of England, for instance.

What do you do 10degrees that makes you better qualified than some of the most experienced economists in the world to say that predicting a significant and longterm downturn in the UK's economic fortunes is 'hysterical tripe'?

10degreestostarboard · 20/09/2018 17:13

Mother of dragons

Your post of 1702 gave me a right old laugh. Thank you.

I mean, these threads often contain the kind of ‘old pony’ found only in a hardline remainers second home stables, but that was on another level.

Bravo indeed - I haven’t had a laugh like that since labour kind of claimed they won the last general election...

Motheroffourdragons · 20/09/2018 17:15

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

chillpizza · 20/09/2018 17:16

The reason brexit “won” was because people where fed up of being ignored or just called names. They where not allowed to mention let alone discuss or debate. Do people think that yet again telling them they are stupid/racist or just don’t matter enough is going to make the situation any better?

If the U.K. where to now stay you are telling all those people who where pissed off enough to vote out that once again they don’t matter/they don’t count/they are too stupid/poor/racist to possiblely understand.

I don’t expect that would be a nice or prettt outcome in or out of the Eu personally.

Hesta54 · 20/09/2018 17:17

DGRossetti If they would like us to stay, they are showing it in a funny, They are now driving us in to the realms of a no deal, publicly undermining TM, which could lead to a leadership challenge and BJ or JRM as a new leader, time has run out for a GE or a 2nd ref,

chillpizza · 20/09/2018 17:17

Pretty not prett

LittleLionMansMummy · 20/09/2018 17:17

Like it or not, it's happening, just get over it already

Anyone else up for a game of Brexit bingo, just to lighten the mood? Because we may as well join in reducing this monumental change of huge political, social, economic and historic significance to sound bites, after all.

I'd like to bagsy Brexit means Brexit.

RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 17:18

It is no longer about leave v remain.

Its about coming up with a plan that solves the problems this country faces and delivers on the expectations and demands of leavers.

By that I mean, when leavers stated 'there are no jobs because of all the immigrants coming over here', remainers focused on the immigration part and didn't hear the part saying 'there are no jobs or opportunities for people like me'.

And thats kind of important.

Theresa May also focused on the immigrants bit cos that fitted with her world view.

But again, she's kind of neglected the 'there are no jobs for people like me' part

And thats kind of important.

And the Brexit we are going to get looks a lot like it doesn't talk about or address increasing mechanisation of jobs that would be 'for people like me'.

Nor does it talk about or address the lack of training and education opportunities 'for people like me'.

Nor does it address class issues where the middle classes have a habit of recruiting individuals who are lot like them, and they don't recruit individual 'for people like me'.

Nor does it tackle how austerity created additional problems and pressures 'for people like me' and how they shouldered the burden whilst everyone else didn't really notice austerity too much.

Nor does it talk about how 'people like me' are supposed to get to jobs when public transport is so shocking and the jobs are located in places they don't live.

I could go on.

But there is a cruical point here; neither does remaining talk about a lot of these issues. It just frames Brexit in terms which does not focus on the 'people like me thing' and it doesn't come up with a plan of how to tackle these problems.

We've been so busy with this Them and Us stuff, we've not talked about an actual vision for the country beyond crappy slogans and rather empty and vague comments. Our political dialogue has become so tribal we are unable to be self critical and call out bullshit happening in our own tents.

We've spent two years, jerking off pretending we can just ignore all these problems. Thats just another two years in addition to a couple of decades of kicking the can down the road because of populism politics.

But the time IS coming when we are going to have to make some really fucking hard and difficult decisions for the benefit of the entire country. And no one fucking politician is up to that job right now from what I can see. Or media are just playing along with the bullshit with a domination of opinion columnists over investigative journalists who drill down into the roots and nature of problems.

Our failure to see the wood for the trees is going to harm us for a generation REGARDLESS of what happens now. It is merely a damage limitation exercise process at this point, and the outcome will depend entirely on when we get our fucking shit together.

We've got a long way to go on that one, and I fear that it won't start until some time after Brexit when we've long since pissed our grandkids future away defending our fucking pride over which way we bloody voted on 23rd June 2016.

We need to start having proper conversations about society and community and problems and how we go about solving them without all the other utter bullshit.

I'm tired of it.

But yes, we need to have this conversation, and stop complaining about why Brexit is taking so long, and 'how we should just get on with it', go and shove it in the Brexit topic so I don't have to see it and engage with it cos I'd rather bury my head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.

Cos its NEVER going to bloody end because Brexit is a sympton of some catatophically bad political decisions and priorities over the last 25 years - virtually all of which originate in Westminister and in your local town hall and have fuck all to do with the EU.

Until we start seeing the whole thing in this way, we will have ever increasing problems. It is not going to go away if Brexit goes away or because we achieve Brexit.

And sadly this is the mentality that virtually everyone seems to be stuck in.

RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 17:19

It's interesting to watch this thread and see who is reading other people's posts and who really isn't bothering to.

10degreestostarboard · 20/09/2018 17:21

Redtoothbrush

In case it helps I don’t read yours

No offence but they are pretty tedious

10degreestostarboard · 20/09/2018 17:21

I mean there is a lot to be said for brevity...

HateIsNotGood · 20/09/2018 17:22

Well I've just heard that the EU has given TM a month to come up with her proposals for the ROI/NI Border. It would be immensely helpful if the EU could 'back off' a bit on this immensely important issue and not use it as a 'bargaining chip'.

The UK and ROI have had special 'rules' for the FOM of their citizens between the two countries that pre-date the EU and the EU needs to let the 2 Governments negotiate the best arrangement that works for them.

Just before the Referendum the EU were challenging the existing 'special arrangements' as being discriminatory to non-ROI/UK EU citizens.

The GFA and our existing closeness and Peace is not something the EU should be messing around with - it's too important.

Racecardriver · 20/09/2018 17:24

Meh. They will also be pretty pissed off if we ended up staying and the EU sank (even further). I think the priority for our generation is revamping international systems to support free trade. At the end of last century it looked like free trade would become a reality and would cure the world of most of its ills like poverty and war. Today, thanks to increasing protectionist and anti global trade institutions like the EU and trumps America this is looking further and further away. Sometimes it feel like the past two centuries of liberalism have ground to a halt and the world is going back in the opposite direction. If our generation truly wants to do good we need to realise that humanity has a common goal and excluding one another with trade syndicates won't achieve anything, just slow us down. We don't need conservatism or a desperate attempt to keep our current way of life afloat by sticking with other like minded countries. We need radical Liberalism. We need to be working to towards a better brittan and a better world. I'm sorry if you hadn't noticed but life in Britain is a bit shit as it is. Could be worse but I don't 5hink anyone will he thanking you for maintaining the status quo at the cost of a better future.

chillpizza · 20/09/2018 17:26

The day after the out vote, it should of become free to train as a doctor/midwife/nurse etc on the understanding of working for a minimum of X years for the nhs. It’s was highly stupid for something like this to of not been put in place and I still think it should be better late than never type thing.

BadderWolf · 20/09/2018 17:27

The GFA and our existing closeness and Peace is not something the EU should be messing around with - it's too important.

Hmm
RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 17:27

I mean there is a lot to be said for brevity...

Cos twitter and overly simplistic slogans have been great for discussion of complex political issues haven't they.

I don't need to be told who is reading other people's posts and who isn't. It's very easy to see.

BanananananaDaiquiri · 20/09/2018 17:28

RedToothBrush, that's exactly why so many of my posts have been asking for an explanation of how Brexit might work within the framework of current domestic government policy. IMO many, if not most of the issues that we face as a country are not at the door of the EU but are a result of successive governments - and this current one spectacularly so - defunding public services, refusing to invest in infrastructure to make the lives of those living in ordinary communities better, slashing LA Treasury budgets so local services are cut to the bone etc etc.

I agree that Brexit was, in places, a massive protest vote. That's how we ended up with areas like Sunderland and the SW voting out when they're some of the biggest recipients of EU regional grants. Unfortunately, it's not the EU that's made people's lives harder year on year. It is, in the main, our own domestic, 'sovereign' government(s). In this case, the same inept government we're now trusting to deliver one of the most complex pieces of international negotiation the country has ever seen. And some people wonder why I can't 'get on board' with Brexit.

10degreestostarboard · 20/09/2018 17:29

Chill

Ok but how would you pay for all of this free training, measured in years for each individual? Where would the money come from because I’m not paying any more tax thank you!

RedToothBrush · 20/09/2018 17:31

The GFA and our existing closeness and Peace is not something the EU should be messing around with - it's too important.

Words...

None.