to think our children will not forgive us if we don't sort Brexit out

[HurricaneFloss]

DFiL voted Leave. He's not thick and he had his reasons but, to be frank, he's 80 and not going to have to live with the consequences long term. Especially, if the NHS don't manage to stockpile his multiple medications in the event of a No Deal.

AIBU to think we all need to kick up an almighty stink to ensure that our Government makes a deal that will protect our children's futures - even if that means remaining. Jacob Rees Mogg and his ERG buddies predict it could be 50 years for the UK to see the benefits of leaving the EU. That's too late for my DD.

Austerity has damaged enough lives, we can't let Brexit do more harm. It's no good shrugging and saying "Leave won". If this isn't sorted out there will be no winners.

So I'm guessing there are no good points to staying in the EU then?

Our children won't give a shit about it. As soon as the baby-boomers die off, they'll reapply to join the EU. The EU will, I suspect, be only to happy to have us back if only to serve as a warning to other states who may be thinking of leaving.

"Remain" is dead. Long live "Re-admission".

Mother

Ah yes the nhs. The darling of the uk. That shining beacon to the world.

Trouble was, it is based on a model which is no longer sustainable to fund. So no, I don’t want an nhs at any cost

But that’s another thread and don’t you have more wisdom to pass about the vote in 2016 that remain won?

Oh silly me, you lost. I remember now.

How are the “ordinary people” who supposedly voted for Brexit going to afford private health insurance?

aah thank you Mother, I was wondering if anyone would notice a polite, ready to be engaged Leaver (it was a tough decision for me 49/51% of brain cells went for Leave).

And thank you for the very well explained method that Belgium implements to ensure that FOM is a positive for them and that the UK has the right to implement the same system under EU Law.

I also appreciate the work that many Immigrants (EU and non-EU) do in the UK and I also enjoy interacting with my non-UK neighbours. I also have been an immigrant myself and it felt like it again when I returned to the UK.

I am familiar with the registration, work in 3 months, or leave Rule but the implementation of this would be very difficult; and without outlining verbatim (at this stage) why it would be (eg: ID cards, low-paid work is ok, etc) I would rather state my problem with FOM.

It is purely down to planning for Public Service provision. Services become overloaded if you do not know in advance (with known variables) the 'population' you are planning for. FOM negates any forward planning, therefore many services can become overloaded and providers will always be back-pedalling.

And yes I've picked fruit in the UK, to make it worth it you do need to stay on site. In a caravan, that you're willing to share. I'd be happy to encourage my DS to do this for the work experience.

I see 10degrees has got their butt plug firmly in place......

The day after the out vote, it should of become free to train as a doctor/midwife/nurse etc on the understanding of working for a minimum of X years for the nhs

Yeh! Great idea! You've just described exactly what happens in many other EU countries (they don't even have to sign up to the X years commitment).

This summer I had the misfortune to need emergency surgery whilst on holiday abroad (in the EU). I got chatting to the nurses; there were many of them on the ward and they had time to chat - in fact, it was considered a crucial part in the care of the patient.

They told me (and I confirmed it by reading the hospital website):

• Their training course lasts 3 years and their qualification is accepted all over the EU;
• They get paid an allowance every month - not huge, but more than just pocket money. The allowance increases in years 2 and 3;
• Their tuition is free and is based at the teaching hospital (but they go off-site to other facilities, e.g. elderly care training takes place in care homes);
• They are able to live on-site - a single room costs €35 a month in rent;
• They can take their meals at the hospital (or care home if they are training off-site). Meals on-duty are free. They can buy a meal-card for all other meals for £32 a month.
• Trainee nurses are treated as employees - they get holidays and receive additional payments if their shifts fall at weekends or at night;

Note - this was not an Eastern European country, but one of the wealthiest countries in the EU - and of course, the country didn't need to leave the EU to have this system.

I'll take that as you thinking along the same lines as me then Red ...

So I'm guessing there are no good points to staying in the EU then?

Rights.
No trade barriers
Less cost to beaucracy in many areas
Less red tape whilst maintaining standards
More trading power to ensure good trade deals with trading powers which are significantly bigger than us.

There are also down sides, but overall in a global economy we do better being part of a group rather than trading to compete on our own.

Havana it’s always been something I thought we should do. Without doctors/nurses/midwifes we die, we need them so should train them, they shouldn’t be put in a ton of debt and treated badly to save our lives. We need them, they don’t need us they can work elsewhere and be paid and treated better.

We need change from the ground up one would hope the brexit vote might of made people high up see this but alas while they get their fat pay and comfy life they dont care.

Thanks Mother - it's nice and productive to find things that at least it's possible to see the other's perspective.

Possibly Fishing might have been an issue for me too - and the French were totally right to object to those obnoxious UK Scallopers last week fishing in their 12 mile waters.

I'll take that as you thinking along the same lines as me then Red ...

I'm not biting on your ignorance of NI politics and how it was left as an afterthought by both remain and leave which was a scandal in its own right.

Nobody seems to have a clue on who’s livingwhere. Council workers seem more than shocked to find 15 people living in a one bedroom place etc none registered for local services and normally working for the person who’s property they are staying in. Slum landlords showed quite a bit of that.

If it's scaremongering to discuss stockpiling of food, meds and other essential supplies - then why are the govt doing this? Why are they planning for blockades at the channel?

They've already cleared unused spaces as storage, they've ordered portaloos, traffic cones and lighting for use in Dover/east Kent by lorry drivers both coming from and going to the continent. They're in discussions with pharmaceutical companies with manufacturing facilities in the uk regarding what's needed to manufacture and store certain drugs here when normally this would be done on our behalf in Europe. They're in discussions with supermarkets regarding storage. Are they scaremongering too?

House prices dictate the state of the economy generally. That's why they're important. Even if you personally rent chances are the level of rent is reflected in the cost of the mortgage/how much was paid for the property.

I'm disabled Lp on benefits, I have medication I rely on to keep me alive and don't have sufficient funds to stockpile much, though I'm trying as much as I can to get a little extra with each grocery shop, though I also have problems with lack of storage. Dd is also disabled and for both of us heating and hot water are essential, nobody has yet explained how the fuck we're going to produce all the energy uk needs if there's no deal come 29 March - which apparently like this year is likely to find parts of uk snowed in! I'm certainly not worrying about DC being able to work in Europe or employing an eu worker, or even going on holiday - I'M WORRIED ABOUT LITERALLY SURVIVING!

"you go to Tesco's and discover the shelves are empty (and won't be re-stocked for 3 days) Asda is likewise empty and Morrison's didn't even open today" that's actually shockingly optimistic! Even 'just' the bad weather of last winter meant it took WEEKS not days supply to get back to normal. Brexit will have a much greater and longer lasting effect.

It's all well and good saying trade with Asia, Africa, South America - they're all a damn site further away than Europe which means high transport and storage costs. USA - trumps already said he'd prioritise trade with eu over uk.

"It’s the biggest con trick in history. They’re laughing at you." Absolutely!

I've written to Local Authority to ask what plans are in place to keep the schools going.

Hahaha. You don't want it removed to the tedious repetitive shit board and then go and write tiedously, repetitive shit post.

Sprinkled atop of you general patronising, you have an incredibly high opinion of yourself OP.

If you recall, @RedToothBrush , anyone daring to say that NI border was a problem before the referendum was called a dangerous scaremonger, threatening decent folk with violence.

I whined about it on here constantly and was told either the above or that it was a niche unimportant issue.

Another one to add to the "fuck you, we told you so" list.

@chillpizza

The nurses training that I outlined above is not far removed from how things used to be in the UK. I'm sure any MN nurses over the age of about 50 will recognise the similarities.

Nurses used to receive a training bursary in the UK. This was abolished in England and Wales in 2017 by the present government, although the Scottish government has retained it.

Which Brexiter is going to guarantee their vote isn’t going to affect the medication me and my daughter rely on?

Red - it really isn't a matter of biting at all, for Leavers and Remainers alike it's probably the biggest 'problem' we have for Brexit.

TM herself recognized this before the Referendum and as one of the reasons why she wanted Remain.

You can call me ignorant but Peace in NI is something so worth preserving that I would take a knock on one of the many other negotiation points in order to preserve it.

DGRossetti If they would like us to stay, they are showing it in a funny, They are now driving us in to the realms of a no deal, publicly undermining TM, which could lead to a leadership challenge and BJ or JRM as a new leader, time has run out for a GE or a 2nd ref,

"...not at any cost..." I believe was the caveat. Which is a mirror of the Leaver attitude of leaving at any cost. ?